Tim,

Welcome to the "Great Quixtar Debate." I think you're discovering what I began to discover a few months ago -- that this "debate" is much bigger and more divisive than I ever imagined. I began my blog for two primary reasons:

1. I was frustrated by the lack of current, timely, relatively unbiased and well-organized information about the mysterious company known as Quixtar.

2. I wanted a place to express my own thoughts, feelings and opinions about my wife's involvement with Quixtar.

Since that time the site has grown to the point where it has honestly begun to eclipse some of my other online endeavors. Every time I think of "quitting" and just shutting down the site I get an email or a comment from someone thanking me for my efforts. This lets me know that in some small way, my effort isn't for naught.

Anyway, what I'm saying is that my intentions were NOT to become some "Quixtar guy." That's partly why I began the site on my webraw.com site instead of giving it its own domain. I saw it as just something to do when I got bored on a Tues. night or when I needed to vent some frustrations or ask a question regarding "the business." And maybe, just maybe, you are getting "the itch" that I got a few months ago to further investigate this business and try to get at the root of why so many people feel so passionately about this particular business (either pro or con). I enjoy your perspective and appreciate you taking the time to share it with your regular readers. As they say on Saturday morning cartoons, "Knowledge is power!"

Take care,
QBlog dude

I think Quixtar is a fraud. The only people making the cash are on the top. I worked this business for 6 months and could not get one person on it. I only got my fam on it and they didnt want to buy anything because the products arent that great. if i was you, dont waste ur time with this business. Open your own. I know someone who has 800 people on their list and they make 8,000 a month. To get 800 people for this business, you got to contact a bunch of dummies or something.

Dont be decieved by Quixtar millionaires. Most of them are employed by the company. I know someone who is being employed to teach people and she is making 2k from teaching. Its a fraud and the govt should shut down this business.

Tim, I would take what you have to say one step further. Chris, you claim, as do most active, recruiting IBO's that Quixtar, and, by extension, Alticor are doing booming business and that things just couldn't be going better for this corporate family. One really has to wonder when the only figures available are those published by the company. Since AmQuix/Alticor are family-owned, they aren't bound to the same statictic-reporting regulations to which publicly traded corporations are held.

Yes, Amway, at least, seems to be prospering...In Asia. Thanks to recently loosened trade restrictions, Amway is doing quite well around the world, most notably in countries such as India and Korea. (See here: http://www.amquix.info/Amway_lies.html . Look under "AmQuix is on the verge of "critical mass" and explosive growth," about a third of the way down the page.)

So yes, for the new IBO in Seoul, South Korea, the virgin market is not a minefield of saturation and ill-will, like one will find in your average American community. If you are prepared to pull up stakes and move to a fresh market, you may very well experience explosive growth.

Unfortunately for Alticor, I doubt there are too many American IBO's prepared to stake their family's well-being and life savings to ship off to Asia to experience such "explosive growth."

Sure, the propaganda sounds good, but it wouldn't be propaganda if it didn't.

All, I am a little confused with this Quixtar thing. My boyfriend & I were introduced to this a couple of weeks ago by one of my friends, she calls herself the " DREAMER ". I am pretty sure I am not going to go any further with this, but in the other hand, my boyfriend is very excited about it and has set up a meeting in our home with the group of Quixtar. Please, give me more information on this. Is there a legal website run by the US Government where I can find more information on this company? I have checked in Bloomberg and nothing. Please advise.

Thanks,

Vanessa

Shaun,

That's a little like saying: "Within two years, I'll be president of my company."

Let us know when you get it, okay? :-)

Until then, care to share your actual income and expenses?

- Tim

A friend asked me to check out a business opportunity. I really like this guy and his wife so I said sure. The upline presenter started talking and i said it sounded like amway, he dodges and ducked that staement amd went on. He then mentioned that he was making 100,000 a year. In the same breath he said that it wasn’t a get rich quick scheme. I said I feel that if you can make 100,000 a year in less than 3 years that that was rich quick. So I said show me your 1099 and I will jump in right now, he said sure he had just gotten it last week. I even said that I wouldn’t use his income as representative of my expectations and would be happy with a third of that income. .........weird never got to see that 1099? He told my friend that it wouldn’t be fair to show me his 1099 because we were friends and that would be special treatment. I said ahhhh that makes sense?????!!! lol
You know I don’t want to ruin someone’s dreams, but I don’t like to see friends learn painful lessons either.

Well, quite useful information there, I really hope and I'm sure it will help the people who are so tactfully lied to about becoming "free". Only if I had read it 2 years ago...anyways, God bless you Tim! and to all "positive" ppl, Tim is not being paid to do this, but diamonds are making money off you, so who would u listen, an unbiased advise or some one who makes money by selling you useless crap?

Well I read a comment by an IBO: "Millions are doing it, millions of ppl can't be stupid", well, being a huge wrestling fan myself (yeah I know its silly, but I like it...), I know millions of ppl watch wrestling. Every body know it's fake, but they watch it, with same enthusiasm even more which i saw in Quixtar's FED :) And speaking of wrestling, I find following similarities between quixtar and wrestling:

1) Its two nights every week.
2) Majority knows it's fake.
3) Participants always get hurt, owner makes a lot of money.
4) important events (Pay per view / rallies) are rediculously expensive, and are once a month, every month.
5) Majority of participants would never achieve superstar status, no matter how good or technically sound they are, unless they know how to entertain audience.
6) Mike skills are way more important than actual thing.
7) Women are at most a diva, nothing else.
8) Normal public thinks it's silly. Well, it is, despit lot of money.
9) If you challange the owner, he'll screw you real bad (bret hart, bo short)
10) Help of your manager / upline can make all the difference :)

Anyways, I feel little bad about associating WWE with such an un-ethical organization...after all, their business is ethical and legal, they do give me good entertainment every time, and no body, well, except my 12 year old brother pushes me to watch it. But Quixtar can't top this one:

In WWE, A good guy / baby face can become a champion while still being a good guy...LOL

(to be fair, a lot of heels in WWE are very very nice in real life, can't say that about ppl who are ripping ppl off)

CLINT, you are my hero.

What I don't understand is if a person steals $.50 cents of merchandise from a store, they're a criminal, and if a billion dollar business scams thousands of people out of their money, and ruins lives like mine, they're still in business.

Yup, that's democracy. Quixtar has long ties with GOP and GOP covers them. A senator (forgot her name) actually is working to make this tool business legal via DSA. Source: pyramidschemealert.org.

Recently a person who is involved in this IBO business came up to me (at college). After some time of speaking with him he mangaged to get me to come to one of the siminars. Must of the plans they present at teh siminars seem to logically correct and that you can make a profit from doing this, but like I said earlyer I am a college student and very will educated so i know there are biases plans and that this could be a scam. (thats why i am at this site lol). I'm trying to find more information on this Quixtar and I am in a conflict of should i do this IBO business are not. So if anyone could help me out on this descision i would truly appreciate it. You could reply to this and also email me. darkcami@yahoo.com Thanks

Well, if it makes any difference to you, the person I wrote about above was no longer doing Quixtar, last I checked. She said she'd thought about some of the ethical argument made, and they bothered her conscience.

The average monthly return isn't that impressive -- something like $115 per month, last I checked. And that isn't after expenses, such as the markup you'll pay on the product, much less deducting the fair cost of your time.

There are people who post here who have done well, and then regretted it. Post here long enough, and I'm sure some of them will introduce themselves to you. There are also some here who are clearly selling the system.

My take: Basicly, it's pyramid which transfers money "upline" through product purchases. You buy a lot of the product, and put in a lot of time and incur a debit. Then you try to repay that debit by putting many more people into the same position -- sort of a geometric game of "hot potato", where each time you pass the potato, it multiplies. Either you get burned or lots more do, downline. Those who get burned downline are told it's their fault. It's not -- the game is rigged against everyone who isn't at the top.

Good intentions don't make one whit of difference. It's all about math.

Try the game with 100 people. 1 signs up 6. Now there are 7. The six sign up 36. Now there are 43. The thrity-six... have no-where to go. They can each sign up about 1.8 more people, who will get burned. As will the 36, because they won't break even with only 1.8 downlines.

Effort makes a difference, but all you're doing is ensuring someone else gets burned, not you.

It's like that in the larger population, too, but harder to observe, and slower. That's the reason this collapsed the last time it was done -- under the name "Amway".

Good luck.

I'm amazed at all the rantings about people who have lost money after getting involved with Quixtar. If you fork over thousands for tapes, or are stupid enough to leave your wife because your upline tells you to, then you deserve what you get.

All I need to know is that I can go to Officemax.com, disneydirect.com, or buy from catalogs such as Oriental Trading, Sharper Image, or hundreds of others, pay what I normally pay, and then get a check back the next month for a portion of what I spent. This ain't brain surgery, and I haven't attended any rallies or listened to any tapes. What's more, I bought my kids over six hundred dollars of Christmas presents at Toy-R-Us in October, only to find the same items in Quixtar's Holiday catalog for the same price or less. When they had a 20% off special on the entire catalog over Thanksgiving, I ordered everything I had already bought and returned them to Toys-R-Us. No problem. A quick $40 or so, plus points. I also got a Gazelle for less than anywhere on the internet with the exception of used ones on e-bay. And I can use it for six months, then return it if I feel like it, and Quixtar will pay for the shipping. I've already been through two digital cameras in that way as well. I can't imagine any smart consumer NOT taking advantage of Quixtar. It's $47 to joing for the first year, about $30 a year thereafter. Big risk.

kc: here is a thing. See the results. Take ANY diamondship and find if the group as a whole is losing $$ or making, i.e. is it a negative sum game, zero sum or positive sum. So far, there is NO diamond that has positive sum game. PPl come, waste some money and 50% or more leave in their first year.

So! 360K IBO in north America in 1977 in FTC lawsuite, 340K according to quixtar own press release. If it's so great, than y is that?

Kevin: Please don't spend money of tapes and don't put as much time. Balance ur budget after 6 months. Put ur PV level, bonus cheque and time spent + expenses. Which one is bigger? Just honestly do that urself.

Regarding the redirect argument: Toys 'R US is NOT Quixtar. partner of many.

If Quixtar items are THAT cheap, y almost no sales to outside clients? y sales less than that of nineties?

Sourse: mlmlaw.blogspot.com.

Here is the source of 0 population growth of Quixtar:

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/09/zero-population-growth.html

360 K active in 1977
340 K active in Sept. 2004

"Regarding the redirect argument: Toys 'R US is NOT Quixtar. partner of many. "

If you will please re-read my post, you will see that I purchased the toys at a local Toys-R-Us, then returned them when they proved to be cheaper when Quixtar ran a 20% off special on all items in their holiday catalog over Thanksgiving weekend. I saved $6 on each of two Fairytopia playsets, $9 on a Sing & Dance Elmo (not from Toys-R Us, from BJ's, which is like a Price Club or Sam's. I have since seen this item at local stores for lower than the $19 I paid at Quixtar. They have lowered their prices, I assume because it is not selling well.), $6 on an Elmo Sing n' Teach Table,, and a few others.

Also, I bought a Gazelle Edge exercise machine for $190, plus $20 flat shipping. Being at the 9% bonus level, I then got $6 back the next month.. So I paid $204. A search on google shows the best price for this item to be at Walmart, for, believe ot or not, $204. (At least this was the case in October, when I bought it.) Had I been at a higher bonus level I could have gotten back as much as $16.66, making it cheaper than Walmart's by $10. The only place I've seen them cheaper is on ebay, and most of those say "refurbished." What's more, I can now use it for six months, then decide if I want to keep it. If I don't, they pay for return shipping. It's amazing. I bought my wife a sewing machine two years ago. She never tried it, I forgot about it. I called to see if I could return it when we had had it for just over eight months. Not only did they take it back, they paid for the shipping and insurance.

If Quixtar items are THAT cheap, y almost no sales to outside clients? y sales less than that of nineties?

I'm assuming it's because people don't take the time to do their research. Have you? No store is going to be the cheapest source of ALL items, but most will have some excellent deals.

But let's ignore Quixtar's prices for a minute. Look at the partner stores. E-toys, a partner store, had EVERY item that I had already purchased at Toys-R-Us, most for the exact same price, and shipping was free on all items except Dora The Exporer's house, which had a $5 charge because it's big. Even though I would have made a little back through the bonus check, I didn't bother re-buying all the toys from eToys and returning the ones I had to Toys-R-Us. Too much trouble to do all of them, so I just did the ones I considered worthwhile. Too bad I hadn't thought to check e-toys first.

How about Office Max? Are there cheaper sources for HP inkjet cartridges? There might be, but I haven't really checked. For my epson, I buy cheapy cartridges on ebay ten at a time, but I haven't really found cheap ones for my HP 11x17 printer. I usually run out of ink during a big print run and then have to run to Staples or Office Max near me. Where I live, when I order something from Office Max.com they deliver it to my house the next day, for free if the order is over $50. They also constantly have specials. I got a lot of cases of Poland Spring bottled water for 16¢ a bottle in September, the same price as BJ/s, then got a few dollars back the next month in my bonus check.

My wife and I have also been big shoppers at the disneystore.com, now disneydirect.com, over the years. They often have items that you can't get in the Mall Disney Stores, and my two little girls are big princess fans.

Also -- we own a dance studio and have subsribed to Dance Teacher Magazine for at least 5 years. Well, their "superspecial, custome only" renewal price was $24. At partner store magazineline.com, I renewed for $19.

It costs $47 to join Quixtar, and $30 to renew each year. I made that money back just through the items I returned to Toys-R-Us.

I don't buy any tapes, I don't go to rallies. I just buy what makes sense, I try the Quixtar products that intrigue me, and I use them if I like them. if not, they refund my money promptly. ( I tried soy peanut butter. The less said there the better, but a friend who is allergic to peanuts eats it.)

From the negative stuff I read on the internet, I assume many people buy some sort of kit of books and tapes and don't realize they can register with Quixtar for only $47. So it's unfortunate that so many scam artists use Quixtar in that way. But to me it is even MORE unfortunate that so many people are out there warning people away from it and calling Quixtar itself a scam. You're "saving people" from a legitimate opportunity to make some money. And every time I tell a friend and they start using Quixtar as I do, they either save a little money or make a little money, and I make a little bit more. Even though I've been involved for two years or so, I've only told a few so far , because it IS often an uncomfortable subject for me to bring up. It only took one or two eye roles when I said the word "Quixtar" to make me gunshy, and I am NOT a natural salesman. So my trip to daimond-hood is unlikely. But I AM comfortable expressing my views in anonymous forums such as this. If anyone is interested in approaching Quixtar in my fashion, e-mail me at bdtkevin@optonline.net. I'll answer any questions you have, either here or through my e-mail.
Good luck to all -- and don't believe everything you read on the internet. Check out the facts for yourself!
Kevin

Hey Tim,

I was a Quixtar rep for all of 1 month. I went to the meetings listened to the retoric and for the most part bought into it, until I acctually was authorized to get on to the web site and especially when I got my first bill. Their claim that you save 30% and you buy at wholesale prices is simply nonsense. You are charged a shipping fee on top of a picking fee, plus taxes, and all the while the products are very expensive.

Now that is just one deception, theres more. I got out before they started trying to sell me cd's, books, and other "training" material the would "help" my business grow. The IBO's are quite literally brainedwashed. The have a strange lingo, they speak as if they are already rich, i.e., "I'm a Diamond", yet they are pulling in $6.05 a month.

My friends are IBO's and won't even listen to what they call "negative" information. The fact is 99.99% of IBO's do not make nearly the money that is claimed to be possible.

Also the IBO's are taught to believe that Quixtar is not Amway. In 2003 (I believe) the Amay distributors were transfered into Quixtar (you may want to verify that, but I believe that is correct).

One more thing, the only reason why Quixtar sells so much is because the IBO's buy so much. It's not the general public buying from IBO's, it's IBO's supposedly buying from themselves (I say supposedly buying from themselves because the only one making a profit is the Alticor Corporation).

I can go on and on but I simply do not have the time at this moment. Simply put stay away from Quixtar.

David

I believe quixtar is a scam. I looked at the products and even ordered some. I went to the meetings and people are brainwashed. They think that being in quixtar they got life all figured out. That's sad ....but people will force themselves to believe anything when they really want it bad enough no matter how strong the proof is that it's a scam.

Imran Said> If Quixtar items are THAT cheap, y almost no sales to outside clients? y sales less than that of nineties?

Kevin Said> I'm assuming it's because people don't take the time to do their research. Have you? No store is going to be the cheapest source of ALL items, but most will have some excellent deals.
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Tim: Any thoughts about configuring a phpBB forum? Its much easy to quote and quite readable. Let me know if I can assist you.

Ok Kevin, first I love your way of doing Quixtar, product based, giving ppl cheaper deals. But I disagree that ppl don't do research for cheaper deals. It's all they do, else flea market near my home won't be full all the time. Yes no store will be cheaper all the time, but ppl will go for value. Value = quality, price, east to shop, delivery, accessibility, marketing, shopping experience etc. Instead of blaming ppl, a business men should adopt to ppl. It won't be very intellegent if I open a shop and start whining ppl don't understand etc. I have to be the one to adopt to customer. No?
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Kevin said>From the negative stuff I read on the internet, I assume many people buy some sort of kit of books and tapes and don't realize they can register with Quixtar for only $47. So it's unfortunate that so many scam artists use Quixtar in that way. But to me it is even MORE unfortunate that so many people are out there warning people away from it and calling Quixtar itself a scam. You're "saving people" from a legitimate opportunity to make some money. And every time I tell a friend and they start using Quixtar as I do, they either save a little money or make a little money, and I make a little bit more. Even though I've been involved for two years or so, I've only told a few so far , because it IS often an uncomfortable subject for me to bring up. It only took one or two eye roles when I said the word "Quixtar" to make me gunshy, and I am NOT a natural salesman. So my trip to daimond-hood is unlikely. But I AM comfortable expressing my views in anonymous forums such as this. If anyone is interested in approaching Quixtar in my fashion, e-mail me at bdtkevin@optonline.net. I'll answer any questions you have, either here or through my e-mail.

Imran Said> Well we are just posting our view, you are yours. Freedom of speech. And you are objecting against it? I'm just trying to understand it. Look I do consulting business. I don't mind criticism about it. I'd welcome it. If there is some thing to it, I'll improve it. If no, it won't matter at all. why Quixtar IBOs are so sensitive about negativity? If Quixtar has some value, ppl will join it like crazy. Every one could use a couple of bucks. If they don't, don't blame critics. Think about it and work on it.

Here is an IBO you'd like:
http://daveontheroad.blogspot.com/

And they have an invite only forum, making the run. Ask dave. You might get some help from them.

Good luck!

I was like David. I was gung ho for 1 month or so. I don't care how the company wants to make their money. If they can sell stuff then that is wonderful, good for them! However the promise of getting good deals on products was totally asenyne. How am I supposed to tell a friend that 7 dollars is a good deal for a meal replacement bar?? I am not one of these quixtar haters like some. However I do feel like i need to be able to sleep at night and this system was ridiculous.

Hi, I'm Rob,
I was nearly turned off to the idea of continuing to offer other poeple the opportunity to check out BWW/Quixtar for themselves about a year ago, but some things hit me pretty hard that fortunately stopped me short of remaining ignorant.

I used to resent sites like this because they made me uncomfortable, I think I had been taking the criticism offered personally. I was also scared that these things would undermine my efforts (I have found, thankfully, that those who truly wish to be informed don't hide under the table everytime someone challenges what they believe- otherwise everyone who saw Farenheit 911 would have run immediately to vote for John Kerry without gaining any further insight.) (That was politically neutral criticism of a stupid propoganda flick that left me scratching my head the first time i saw it- check out the claims behind that thing if you really want to wonder about a lot of voters who cited it as pivotal in making their decision.)

I have since come to realize that all worthy undertakings come with some adversity, AND A LOT OF PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE STILL WILLING TO DEAL WITH IT! (And they are not ALL suckers for those who like to claim that :) I think the biggest problem of all (as relevant to this discussion) is that most people aren't very brave to begin with, including me. Most people are just plain afraid of a lot of things. I think that being teased (at all) is an option that most people wouldn't choose (some people tease you if you check out Quixtar you know ;) I also think that most people are afraid of being wrong, afraid to make mistakes, afraid of failure, afraid of rumors and afraid to take risks. I don't blame anyone who feels that way, I DO! Most successful people get laughed at and fail and make mistakes at some point, though.

Long story short(er) Still kinda long ;)

First off, I have learned A LOT because a stranger was brave enough to ask me a question. ("Are you keeping your eyes open when it comes to making money?" I was.)

Secondly, I have been a Christian all of my life and I take the Bible completely seriously. Most of my most difficult issues regarding money in general were due to a misunderstanding on my part of what is written in there. (this would make for a very long- but very interesting discussion, the Bible has A LOT to say about money). "So-called" ethical reasons brought up on a site like this are what almost made me quit. They were powerful and important considerations- but they were wrapped in fear. I was AFRAID that they MIGHT BE TRUE! They were. Did you catch that? IF I CHOSE TO TAKE ADVANTAGE OF PEOPLE IN AS A MEANS TO AN END THEY WOULD HAVE BEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The site left out the option to ACTUALLY HAVE INTEGRITY in my business though. I see that now. I bet I could blow somebody out of Quixtar in a second if I wanted to- I have a pretty good imagination! I could make up a scenario where you are left penniless, friendless, wifeless and under God's wrath just for considering Quixtar if I wanted (try me ;)
But I know that I would be leaving out some very important sides of the TRUTH!

Because of my experience with Quixtar:

-I am now able to EDUCATE myself efficiently regarding money because of the advise available to me through the incredible people who I work with.

-I also have a wonderful business vehicle through which to refine by experience a few of the most difficult and sometimes painful characteristics a person can gain: People skills, a guage of my own integrity and honesty, a guage of my belief system, courage, patience, love and concern for others, the ability to listen to others, humility, self respect, perseverance, servitude, true leadership skills and OPEN-MINDEDNESS!

-I treasure these things much more than money.

On the subject of money:

-Most people worship it or fear it in my opinion.
-Most people don't learn to manage it or how to have it work for them.
-Accounting isn't easy, but it is important to take control of money.
-Understanding what an asset is is important.
-Goals are important.
-Faith that is acted upon is needed first in order to accomplish anything -example, none of us learned to tie our shoes until we believed that we one day could- then the practice began!
Making money is the same.

One very difficult lesson for me to learn was this: Great wealth requires work done outside of a single person. Those who desire great wealth must admit this. Your boss is fine with the idea. King Solomon didn't work for the majority of his fortune. Bill gates didn't either. Neither, unfortunately, did Al Capone.
Some people take advantage of many people to become wealthy, some help many people in order to become wealthy. The only way, however, to make money through the hard work of other people voluntarily (without forcing it out of them) is to offer them in return something that they desire. This might be products or services or knowledge or attention or nice-sounding lies (in the case of many governments, scams, and some people in Quixtar) or painful truth or a challenge, and usually financial benefit of some kind. If you offer someone a job or a partnership or a business opportunity, you make money by helping them make money. If you don't they can always QUIT! If you make money through lies, poeple eventually FIND OUT! In my experience I have seen the very best of these things coming from the people I work with in BWW. I have heard horror stories also come out of Quixtar that illustrate the worst of these things (I suspect dishonest and fearful people as the culprits- I doubt that most of them are REALLY as bad as they are made out to be, though).

I am currently making money by teaching other people what I know and giving them the option to do as I do, but I NEVER TELL THEM THAT IT WILL BE EASY. I honestly don't expect most people to be willing to do what I do. There are 9 core steps in the Britt system that are recommended to minimize risk of failure. (Actually showing the plan to other actual poeple is one of them, forms of self-education make up more than half of them and having INTEGRITY is a step!) Most people don't come close to doing them. That's fine, I guess. Some of them want their upline to build their whole business for them, which is sometimes done. Most people try their own way first and fail. The smart ones don't quit there. If someone tells you how to do something they did, and you don't do it how they say, don't expect the same result as them unless you don't mind if you get different results. I do more work than anyone in my business, but that is why I am more successful than they are right now. Make sence? I look for people WHO WANT TO WORK WITH ME! They have to decide that for themselves. No one HAS to be my friend, my friends choose to be my friends- but I am still responsible to be someone that others want to be friends with if I want friends! My wife didn't have to marry me! She chose to- but I first had to be (which meant I had to become) the man that she wanted to marry! If I would like to have a happy wife I need to CONTINUE TO BE THE MAN SHE WANTS TO BE MARRIED TO!!!!!! (Big hint if you are experiencing relationship issues- I am not about to elaborate on that though! :)

All the people who posted so far seem like good people. Anyone can ask me whatever they want, but give me time to respond, I almost never do chat rooms (takes too much time- not enough substantive info to be worth it to me). I may or may not check this site again. E-mail me though if you want.

God bless you all, have fun LEARNING!

Rob

e-mail: rxm7909@sru.edu

P.S. If you want to discuss numbers and income and statistics with me, be ready to provide your own info and credentials. My financial situation looks pretty ugly right now to be perfectly honest. I paid well over $100,000 for my education! (That's college and grad school by the way- not Quixtar- got ya ;)

P.S.II I wasted WAY too much time on this, I'm saving it :)

Rob,

I want to congratulate you on what is probably one of the best pro-Quixtar posts we've had here. You explained your position, you didn't insist on calling everyone else a "loser", and you (mostly) avoided the same old tired lines most IBOs employ.

I agree with you strongly on some of the points you've posted, such as people being driven, frequently, by fear of being wrong, etc. I'm glad you've gotten over that are trying to be as honest as you can.

So I have a few questions for you:

1. Since you are a Christian, you surely believe in the "do unto others" rule, right? That is, that we should treat others as we'd want to be treated -- am I correct about this?

2. When you want to buy some product, after you know all the features, what's the most important thing people want to know? The cost, right? And when people are applying for a job, what's the most important thing in their mind? The salary, right? The thing everyone wants to know is how much something will cost them, or how much they can reasonably expect to earn, right?

With me so far?

3. Yet Quixtar doesn't generally divulge this to people, even though the numbers are readily available!

Well Tim, Quixtar DOES reveal their stats on signing up. They do tell the prospects that average income is $115 in SA400. They also tell that IBOs are giving up their right to go to court in case of any future disagreement. (arbitration, which according to IBOAI member Jody Victor is a joke).

To add, these both are in fine print. I'd venture to say that 90% ppl don't read them.

Rob, congratulations. I don't know but many quixtr related blogs and forums attracts militant type of IBOs. I haven't seen any IBO as logical as u here. Sorry Tim but thats my observation from the limited posts I have read here.

So, may I answer few questions from you? Not ur financials, about BWW?

What are the 10 bonuses they show when the show the plan? one is Volume bonus, other is group binus, 3rd is leadership bonus. What are the remaining 7?

P.S. If you want to discuss numbers and income and statistics with me, be ready to provide your own info and credentials.
I'm ready. Like what?

I'm not asking your income and your pay cheque. So I don't know if that's fair. I'll definitely have mine ready if I ask yours. Fair?

Disney,Levis,Panasonic,IBM,Microsoft,officemax, to name a few legit business we work with.

Can I tell you a secret?

Most of these companies will sell their products to ANY one. And Quixtar is just an affiliate with those companies and quixtar sell their products. It's not a partnership. Naming those companies to justify legitness is pathetic.

If a shop, start selling these products, does that shop become legitimate just because of those products? No!!!

And no, you do not WORK with those companies. You are an associate of Quixtar and buy these products via quixtar.com. And at rare occasion, sell some of those.

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/03/monday_reader_mail_34.php

I get legal tax write offs from guess who the goverment what a concept but you guys all figured it out and they missed it.

Are you sure it's legal? I'm not saying it's illegal but I won't say it 100% legal either. I don't know how much retail u do but if u r not selling 50PV, u r not entitled for a bonus cheque. Neither tax writeoff. But as I was told, tranfer 50 personal PV toward retail and bam! you got ur bonus cheque and entitled for a writeoff. Glad I quite in a year and last month, did a lot of retail as well.

Besides, if u don't turn good profit in 2 years, Quixtar business will be considered as a hobby business. No write offs than.

Just because the majority of people in any business are scaming a holes doesn't mean the company is.

LOL! this is hillarious. What is company doing about those who are scamming? Nothing. So?

http://www.merchantsofdeception.com

nuff said and no you can't e-mail me because I was taught that to get people through third partys is wrong and spaming make you and the company look weak.

you expect ppl to email you based on what you wrote? Seriously?

sorry about spelling and grammer did this quick so as not to waste time

I love spelling mistakes. I really do. I do that all the time. It's fun.

Imran said: "And no, you do not WORK with those companies. You are an associate of Quixtar and buy these products via quixtar.com. And at rare occasion, sell some of those."

So true! Why do IBOs so easily confuse "purchasing" and "partnering"? It's because they don't realize they are simply consumers.

Shane, please listen. Imran has direct, extensive personal experience in this area, and you should not take his advice lightly. He is not writing to you for his own profit, but is selflessly attempting to save you some pain to yourself by sharing what he has learned.

Shane said: "I was taught that to get people through third partys is wrong and spaming make you and the company look weak."

No, there's a more insidious reason for this.

If Quixtar's products really could compete in the market they would sell directly, and advertise, themselves. The fact they do not should tell you something.

Think: Advertising is a very effective technique which makes marketing efforts more efficient. A few thousand dollars gets an ad before a lot of peoples' eyes. Those companies you are so proud to "partner" with -- IBM, OfficeMax, Disney etc. -- weren't built by word-by-mouth or "plan showing" -- they never would exist in the first place without advertising.

Likewise, a third party could extend any IBOs' reach and help them be more efficient.

Who cares what it "looks" like? Does Disney "look weak" because it advertises??? Of course not. And OfficeMax's investors would declare it "weak" if it didn't advertise.

So really, since it works, why not do it?

Because it's not profitable for Quixtar.

Allow me to explain: Imagine that you could make every single Quixtar IBO do their marketing work ten times more efficiently. If a particular IBO could show the plan 6 times a week before, now he can show the plan 60 times per week.

What would happen?

Quixtar would lose a lot of money, that's what would happen!

Please realize that most IBOs drop out after about a year or two. I've heard current dropout rate is something close to 50% per year. (Imran undoubtedly has his finger on these stats better than I do.) Only a tiny fraction will ever make even Platinum, which is currently averaging only $15,000 per year before expenses.

If you could make an IBO prospect ten times faster, he (or she) would also realize they're out of leads ten times faster. Instead of taking 20 months to drop out, a particular IBO would take only 2. That means Quixtar loses 18 months of sales to that IBO.

Imagine if that happened across the board! Quixtar would lose 90% of it's profits. And the same could be said for the "tools" as well.

Again, take note: Quixtar makes its money selling product to IBOs while they prospect. That means the sales process needs to be as slow as possible to keep IBOs interested, moving forward, gaining people to replace those dropping out, but at a nice, slow, measured, steady rate. You want to string each IBO along as long as possible.

And that, in a nutshell, is why you do not advertise. Not because advertising is obsolete -- it is not. But because word of mouth is slow, and therefore very, very profitable.

And, by the way, this also explains the various social aspects of Quixtar, which act like a "glue" to help keep the IBO attached and going as long as possible.

And dittos with the "dream visualizing" exercises, which are a powerful form of mental manipulation to cause the IBO to mentally link their hopes only to Quixtar.

Cool I found this again! (I tried to remember something I wrote before to make the search more specific, but it took a couple tries ;)

Wow! Lot's of questions!
I think for me, the whole matter is a perspective issue. I'll do my best to make sense! (I'm currently taking a 1 AM study break during finals and I didn't sleep last night so no guarantees :)

Let's see, here's the first three questions:

1. Since you are a Christian, you surely believe in the "do unto others" rule, right? That is, that we should treat others as we'd want to be treated -- am I correct about this?

yes :) That verse is in Luke chapter 6 (verse 31?)I believe. Goes along with Love your nieghbor as yourself as Jesus said in Matthew and Mark... Jesus listed Loving your nieghbor as yourself as #2 of two greatest commandments. (Loving the Lord your God with all of your heart, mind, strength #1) He said that all of the Laws and the Prophets follow from these. This is really a verse to live by, not just agree with. Can't be a very obedient Christian without doing this. I like this as a start :)

2. When you want to buy some product, after you know all the features, what's the most important thing people want to know? The cost, right? And when people are applying for a job, what's the most important thing in their mind? The salary, right? The thing everyone wants to know is how much something will cost them, or how much they can reasonably expect to earn, right?

With me so far?

With ya :)

3. Yet Quixtar doesn't generally divulge this to people, even though the numbers are readily available!

Ok. I haven't read through the FYI's on the QUIXTAR site in a while but I always found them to be informative.

Most initial info gets to a new person through the IBO who contacted them. I always give people a 6-4-2 sheet and a CD (sorry, I lend them! I loose a lot of them because of that attitude ;) People can request more info if they want to. We have starter packs (they are pretty informative). I don't use them very much, but they are available. I should probably use them more now that you bring that up! :)

Prices for products are on the site itself. I actually have the oposite opinion about prices. I didn't buy certain products initially because they looked really expensive (I come from a family of ten- you learn to be cheap!). Most are really concentrated. I finally broke down and tried the shampoo a couple months ago for example (I thought it was just really fancy or something). Apparently it is very concentrated and I don't need to use much. I would imagine that the cost per use is at least competitive with the Walmart stuff I used, plus I earn PV/BV. I really like the dish soap, that stuff kicks butt. My wife and I still haven't gone through a large bottle in two years! Quality is very good. Products not as expensive per use as they look. I would compare most prices to Walmart per use. In that ball park. I'm not really big on promoting savings unless people shop at the mall a lot.

Income potential is a biggy. I'm not sure if my answer will really be satisfactory to you. (I might have a different point of view than many of you on the matter- I'm fairly conservative). Here goes anyhow. First of all, for the guy who wants to know about my finances, I have a state electrician's license for the state of Ohio and I contract jobs independently from time to time during school. (When customers don't rip me off I charge and make $35 an hour + materials). I'm working on a clinical doctorate. My wife is a long-term sub for a 7th grade Math teacher currently. Our monthly income outside of Quixtar money and school loans is around 2000 a month. We have currently budgeted about 600 dollars a month toward business. Between 300 and 400 for products- which is perhaps 150 dollars more than I would usually spend because I give away a lot of samples and because I would normally shop at Aldi and Salvo and get free stuff from my parents since people still donate a lot of food to them- 8 kids like I said. We try to make a point to be pretty self-sufficient on our own products. About 100 bucks a month goes toward books and tapes (standing order is around $50, but I often buy extra when I find CD's that are especially useful- like the new Powerwave CD- very informative for new people.) Functions, and any additional travel expenses (I'm really good at being cheap here) are around $100 or so a month on average. Communication tools and cell-phone and internet are about 100 more, but only about $20 dollars a month of this is more than normal for school and electrical work. Do the math and our monthly business investment is in the neighborhood of 400-500 dollars on top of our normal monthly budget. I consider myself to be one of the rare IBOs who actually treats my business like a business. My short term goal is to BREAK EVEN! WOO HOO! If a lot of you are shaking your heads that's fine. The whole point to all of this is that I am actually doing the work needed to run my business as a business. Realistically speaking, and I tell everyone this, you are just a glorified customer of yourself until you start to turn a profit of some kind. I make more immediate income doing electrical work, but I have to deal with a brand-new customer, another old-disguesting attic, and all new problems to troubleshoot everytime in order to get payed again! I am building a Quixtar business for the residual income. Like I said, short term goal is 400-500 a month. After that, 2000, which covers all of our monthly expenses. (According to some, residual income equal to expenses = financial independence, assuming my business structure is stable)

Because I am currently the primary plan shower in my business, our monthly volume reflects how much work I put in. New people tend to do more and buy more the more I help them. That said, we have a small growing business of 4 legs with 1 layer of depth in one leg. I am currently working with about a dozen more people who are taking a look and I am increasing the number of plans I am showing. We have had two legs do over 100 points out of the four. We don't have any consistent legs yet. (By legs I mean businesses we are working with for those who aren't familiar with that terminology). My wife and I have hit 1000 points before ($300 bucks income), but a lot of that was a couple of water treatment system sales. When I have showed the plan less than 5 times in a month, the next month tends to yield about 200-350 PV. ($20-$40 bucks) The months when I showed more than 10 plans got us up around 600 points in the next month or two (around $100). Momentum is very big in this business. A lot of the people I am working with are getting re-energized right now, and I am no longer the only one showing the plan. Basic message here, showing the plan more = more income. My goal is to consistently show the plan 15+ times per month for a whole year. Everyone I know who has done that has a huge business. It's not a big secret to figure out who is showing the plan in this business! Anyway, I was pretty honest here. You can look at my business and call me a failure if you want to, but I have learned a set of skills that I can apply in order to create massive residual income. I don't beg people to join my business. I offer them my time! I know that I will be the one doing most of the work for a while because MOST PEOPLE DON'T SHOW THE PLAN!!!!

As a sidenote, the math has always worked out according to the business plan when we get checks. I know exactly how much is coming in based upon my monthly PV/BV and that of my down-line.

A lot of people like me exist who really enjoy this. I don't mind if the people posting here don't like QUIXTAR. If everything I just told you sounds hard and unethical, than by all means, don't do it! I'm looking for crazy people like me to work with :)

As far as my own expectations for earning are concerned. I expect to show at least ten plans this month and sponsor 2 more people at the minimum. I expect to sponsor 5 times faster than people quit. I like to offer people the opportunity to quit and to get there money back if they don't do anything. At the point when I have sponsored 20 people personally, which is an additional 16 people, I expect our group momentum to drive us to platinum as I have seen happen many times. I don't expect all 20 to do what I do! I expect that 3 or 4 of them will be serious about this!

For those of you who are curious, those 3 or 4 are the only ones in any danger of significant financial risk out of the 20. I will be working with them and helping them the MOST! That's pretty much how it goes.

I do have a few questions for Imran:
How long were you involved? Did you show the plan? Does what I'm saying reflect your experience? Can you be specific about the facts involved with your experience?

Thanks guys, I know you asked a lot more questions, some of them were pretty fun ones. I might hop on again in a week or so to catch some of them. I was pretty long winded about our currently messy finances, but hey, that's reality!

Last thing. When I sponsor someone, I GIVE THEM MY TIME AND LOVE! I hope that my life experience is worth the 40 bucks it costs them to sign up!

Rob

I really need to study but I couldn't resist!
Imran asked about the other 7 ways of making money. I think this is a fun topic. We always say there are like 30 ways. Little stuff like credit card offers money back, stuff like that. Major stuff: I believe that at the Q-12 level or maybe emerald level tapes and CDs only cost 5 bucks or 5.50 before tax. Anyway, the rest is profit. I would argue that at that point you have earned it! Speakers at Rallies and Functions are paid. That is another big one for emeralds and above. 4% bonus is another one. Emerald bonus, Diamond bonus, growth bonuses are others. Way number 31 is my favorite. A buddy of mine took charge of ordering pizzas for about 30 people in our group at a function last year. He had everyone pitch in 4 bucks. When the pizzas came he was standing there with a handful of extra money that he was trying to hand back out. Our upline platinum, who always cracks me up yelled over to him, HEY! Keep it! That must be the 31st way to make money in this business!

Anyway, I don't know them all, but those are a few. I personally don't have a problem with my upline making money from tapes and speaking engagements. I gladly pay for those things because they are valuable to me, someone deserves to profit from them or why would they bother doing it anymore? Just a thought.

P.S. I like the idea of getting paid for speaking engagements :) My mom is a singer and most of her performances are free. In my opinion she is worth paying to hear, and I can't necessarily learn to earn more money back after listening to her ;)

Have a good night you guys :)

Ok Rob, can u answer me some questions:

1) Every American / Canadian hold a write to go to court and get a trial. Why in Quixtar a person has to sign up BSMAA and give up that right? Isn't it fishy enough? Who does business that way? Answer: Mafia.

2) Where do you prospect ppl?
3) How many ppl you prospect seems interested? Do they all like to be prospected?
4) What are your monthly expenses on books and tapes? Don't you feel that theese teachings are bit redundant?

As a Uk IBO there are amny points raised in this discussion that I don't understand, because of differences in the way it is organised. However I would like to highlight the many ways of making money through the "quixtar" business. I haven't paid for any seminar tickets or motivational material. All I paid was my start up costs, I am a university student so can't afford to just buy from myself, this said I am still managing to make money from te little work I put in. All I have done is redirect the money I spend. I would usualy go to a supermarket or a high street store for the things I can now buy through my online business. Many friends and people I know have been interested in where i do my shopping, especially as e-commerce is now so big, this has meant that my core line products as well as those form "partner stores" have been selling to all kinds of people thanks to my referral by others.
The result is that yes companies are benefiting from my spending, but that was always going to happen, its just that now I am buying htings I always did, at a similar/cheaper price and getting money back on my purchases. I really can't understand what all the fuss and negativitey is about. People will have bad experiences in meany lines of work, immorality or whatever you want to call it, but these industires still run effectively. SOme people bad experiences should not be used as a way of deterring other people from finding things out for themselves.

Are u sure that products are indeed cheaper? I seriously doubt that.

As for the 1 in 1000 comment... everyone in that room has the ability to be a diamond.

Sure they do, but each of them will need 1000 others who are not Diamond. That does not depend on any other factor than mathematics.

Have you ever been to one of their major functions?

I have been, in many of them. First their advice is not evil. E.g. there is nothing wrong with loving freedom. There is nothing wrong with wanting things. But manipulating these wants, greed and instilling fear is bad.

Functions are funny! Why do I need to travel this far? Put a recording online for 1/1000th of cost (of whole group). Here is the reason:

In a dark and cold hall, sitting tired after 1000 miles journey, sleep deprived, perfect for hypnotizing dream. Think about it. Why do they need you there to teach you when you can be taught by an online video if not text?

Paul,

As for the 1 in 1000 comment... everyone in that room has the ability to be a diamond. Whether they do or not depends on many factors mostly determination and their personal skill set but because it takes a lot of work, a few years. obviously a few have done it.

Quixtar Diamonds aren't "mined", they're manufactured -- in order for one Diamond to get rich, many, many downlines must incur significant debt, as their wealth is transferred "upward" to create the Diamond. Many small debts are accrued, and passed on, in order to make one "profitable" Diamond.

Paul,

First of all, good for you for actually reading something (unlike so many who comment here), whether you agreed or not. Kudos!

I assume the negative slant on "Early successes are easier" applies to Google, Microsoft, Ford, etc too .... right? I mean let's be fair, Although I disagree that it applies here. Of course the early ones get early rewards. Welcome to capitalism.

Quixtar IBOs will say: "Anyone can succeed at this if they just try." But that's not true in the slightest: In a "system" which spreads that way, effort is FAR less important than entry-time, and what IBOs say is utterly false. If I'm the last one in, multiplying my effort by a million won't make the slightest difference.

In contrast, in the cases you cite, the exact opposite is true. If the first car company doesn't expend much effort, then new car company with a better product -- say, Toyota -- can usurp existing market share, even if it enters the market much later. That's not even slightly true for a new Quixtar IBO.

Are you not able to see the huge difference between these two different situations?

The point of the "plan" is residual income.

That residual income only happens as long as the people under you stay signed up. In theory, this probably won't happen, as in any closed market (and each town is closed to those who don't want to travel -- and most won't), the people on the bottom won't tend to stay in, as it gets harder and harder to locate those last downlines.

When this happens, they will be disappointed in their expectation -- which you have just helpfullly confirmed is still how it is sold -- of making the most profit from residual income. When they quit, the IBO above them must find more people to replace them.

I'm not sure I understand how you see Quixtar out growing the population. I guess when it does get to the point when everyone in the U.S. is an IBO then there may have to be a shift in plans but we as a country have protections against such monoploies. I think that is really streaching things to assume that it will reach that point. Most anything maxiumized to infinity looks bad.

Right now, the last stat I heard was that Quixtar IBOs stood for about .002% of the population. If I were to throw a dart at a map of my city looking for a place to open a Subway. I probably have to rethrow it a few times so I didn't land next to one that already existed. But if I were to open the local phone book and point to a name I'd have a pretty good chance they weren't an IBO. So I really think the saturation issue is mute. Not even to mention it's international. The thought 670 billion people makes my head spin. IBOs are a drop in the bucket compared to that.

Let me throw some negativity here.

85% failure rate is a stupid myth. Many small businesses sell their business or move their venue, and they are counted as "Business who used to be there, not any more". Your article explains it very well. Uh but IBOs who relocate are still counted as active if they're active right?

Quixtar plan I saw used the same number, didn't explain it like ur article did, twist it and use it as a scare tactic to promote Quixtar as only way left to survive.

66% percent of all IBO's are active. Conversely 33% aren't.

That's at any given time. Inactive ones usually don't renew.

More than 50% ppl also Quit every year.

Amway has been around since 1959; and did I mention .002% of the population? It's sold $4.7 billion and it's net worth is billions beyond that and it still hasn't made a dent in the population. You can't argue the numbers.

Yes you can't! Amway numbers are same, shouldn't it have grown?

Paul said:

"Should I blame free enterprise for my failures? Absolutley not. So if an IBO pours a couple thousand dollars into Quixtar or any other franchise opportunity and loses it, I hope they
don't blame anyone for thier lose but themselves. My family has owned several companies and have lost here and there. If we blamed them for our loss we'd never success. We would always be looking to them to provide our succcess. Quixtar won't make you rich. You make yourself rich. Some just use Quixtar to get there".

Jason said:

Does anyone else find it interesting that success in Quixtar is attributed to the "proven system" but the overwhelming failure is never a result of the system but the fault of the IBO? It's not just you, Paul. This isn't the first time I've heard this declaration by an IBO. My question then becomes why does failure always have to lie on the shoulders of the hard working IBO? They can't all be lazy, un-motivated, or inactive. At what point to we begin to question the business model?

You indicated earlier that it's about the numbers. Imran has provided a link (Zero Population Growth) that presents some valid numbers from Amway/Quixtar's own documents that should be more than convincing that something is not right, but in fact very wrong with this 'opportunity.

Oh, one last note about: "first one in" being easier -- reputable chains like McD's have limits to make sure franchisees -- from the first onward -- each have a market available. A local franchisee would hate hearing that more franchises were being granted in his area.

In Quixtar, this is precisely reversed: A franchisee loves new franchisees, even ones right next door, and there are no limits to ensure saturation isn't being reached in some area.

Why? Because McDonanld's only franchises in order to sell to more "external" customers. In contrast, Quixtar franchises because they mainly make profit off the franchisees, not external customer. That's a huge difference.

I'm not sure I understand how you see Quixtar out growing the population....

Again, all you need to do is compare the rate at which YOU, as an IBO, are being expected to grow in order to be profitable against the actual population growth rate.

What is so difficult to understand there?

Imagine you had 100 pieces of fruit, and a tree that produced one a day. If you needed to eat ten a day, would this be sustainable? Right. So you can understand this concept when the question doesn't involve the word "Quixtar".

Conversely, imagine I said you needed 10 pieces of fruit a day to live. Imagine, over time, you noticed that the pile of fruit remained constant at 100. What does that tell you? It tells you you're not getting ten pieces a day. It tells you, on average, you've only been eating 1 per day.

So if they're telling you to sign up people at a higher rate of growth than the population, then you know over time, this isn't going to be working out for the average IBOs. Something has to give, the average rate must be lower, if the actual number of IBOs is remaining fairly constant.

Right now, the last stat I heard was that Quixtar IBOs stood for about .002% of the population.

I find that incredibly unlikely. There are about 300 million people in the US (CIA Factbook), and probably roughly about 220 million of those over 18. 0.002% of 220 million is only 4,400 IBOs. If you want me to believe there was $4.7 billion in product sold, this would mean each IBO bought over a million dollars in product.

So, needless to say, I'll have to pass on those numbers.

Most estimates of say there are about 1-3 million IBOs. I think my sponsor told me about 2 million IBOs, with about 1 million active.

Paul, can we agree that majority of Quixtar products are bought by IBOs? 95% or so? I can provide data if you want.

Why is that? Why the rest of the world don't wanna buy them? Except few b2b folks like you?

Paul,

Looks like a straw-man argument to me, as I see the conversation as having gone this way:

Tim: "Quixtar generate no wealth."
Paul: "How do you know."
Tim: "The case is explained at this link."
Paul: (Says things which seem to indicate he has not even read the content of the page at the link, and:) "Providing a link to a page you wrote is circular reasoning."
Tim: "No it isn't. Please read the link."

You were more than welcomed to disagree with the content and arguments explained on that page -- or even show you'd read it. As I explained before, I'm simply providing a link because I don't feel like cutting and pasting the entire argument into a comment here, or re-typing.

But when you accuse me of saying you must believe the case I spell out only "Because I wrote it" you are simply lying through your teeth, in a defamatory way I might add. To the contrary I said the exact opposite:

I'm not citing myself as an authority, and this isn't a dissertation: the idea stands or falls on its own merits. I'm referring you to a page of text so I don't have to type it all over again here.

In light of your clear dishonesty here, used in a defamatory fashion, you are now banned. (Comment rule #2.) Please leave the blog: I have no patience or tolerance for socipathic liars: besides wasting my time on an investment in them that will clearly not pay off, such people display no interest in learning, improving themselves, or doing what will be helpful to others.

I never cease to be amazed at the low moral calibre of the typical Quixtar IBO.

Tim, I still contend referencing yourself or your content is circular reasoning.

If so, then anyone who ever suggests you read their book is commiting illogic, and we can prove their case is worthless and fallacious immediately just by pointing out they said we should read it.

This is how far you will go to avoid admitting you were simply utterly clueless about what "circular reasoning" was. Pathetic. Typical IBO: logic must die so that their ego might live.

For the record (since you don't even seem to have read the defintion), circular reasoning, or "begging the question" involves assuming the very premise you are trying to conclude as a necessary assumption. It does not mean simply TELLING SOMEONE to go read a document which contains the entire argument you're trying to get them to hear.

What an idiotic thing to argue.

But no-one is so blind as he who will not see.

Goodbye, and I hope you think seriously about the damage you will be trying to inflict on others. If I really disliked you, I'd urge you on, as I know what it's likely to do to you. But I hope you change your mind and behavior, if only for your own sake.

It's not too late to turn around, you know.

I think I want to respond to Imran,

This whole crazy blog things seems sort of therapeutic to me. I remember when this stuff actually bugged the heck out of me because I didn't know what was true and what wasn't. To be completely honest I think the whole reason why this conversation exists is because of paranoia. Nobody likes to be had. Nobody likes other people to think you are trying to trick them (at least I don't). I think that is the real major issue the scares people. (It is my firm belief that people get both suckered INTO and OUT OF the quixtar business everyday!!!! (They say a sucker is born every day, I think people have dreams torn from them everyday also... very sad...) Anyway, Imran asked some stuff:

Ok Rob, can u answer me some questions:

1) Every American / Canadian hold a write to go to court and get a trial. Why in Quixtar a person has to sign up BSMAA and give up that right? Isn't it fishy enough? Who does business that way? Answer: Mafia.

The comment that came first to mind here is that I am Italian. How do you know I don't have those kinds of connections ;) Anyway, I don't know. I personally waive my right to sue people I like all the time. Too many idiots sue and it drives me nuts. Someone sued my parents for running over our dog two years ago. I guess the simple answer here is, if Imran is right and you can't live without a right to sue, don't sign up. Simple enough?

2) Where do you prospect ppl?

Business secret ;) Actually, the best advise on the matter I ever got was this (from my upline): Just live life and talk to people.

If someone you talk to seems to be fairly SHARP (key word here), ask them this simple question (assuming they are a grown-up with a mind of their own): "Are you open minded when it comes to making money." I've asked a few friends who I thought NEEDED money (interpreted as- owed me money) and mainly got a bunch of stupid remarks in return. I generally try to avoid bringing up business around people who are NOT MOTIVATED!!!!!!!!!!! AAAAAGHHHH!!!!!! If you ever want a migraine, just try to show the business plan to someone who can't talk about anything but walmart, taxes and their intestinal problems... I think some people just need a toilet to complain down ;) I think this was a bit of common sense that I lacked before I signed up was that some people really ARE looking and MOST AREN'T!!!! I don't know which category you fell into when you joined up Imran, but for goodness sake, never feel pressured to do something YOU DON'T WANT TO DO!!!!!! I wouldn't sponsor you ;) You would drive me nuts. WHY WOULD I WANT TO FORCE YOU TO DO SOMETHING YOU DON'T WANT TO DO!!!! I like you though. You seem to be honest. Truthfully, I think people let their egos get hurt too much (and that includes me) when they get "rejected," but that's why it's so important to trust that other people have minds of their own and can use them. I will vow right now that I WILL NEVER TRY TO TALK SOMEONE INTO DOING THIS BUSINESS EVER AGAIN!!!! AAAAAGHHHH AGAIN!!!!! I think most people could benefit from it if they WANTED to, but that is NOT MY DECISION!!!!!

I apologize if all you were looking for was a geographical type answer. Basically places where starting up a casual conversation is natural.

3) How many ppl you prospect seems interested? Do they all like to be prospected?

I tend to look for qualities that I like in people before I ever ask them about anything like that. Of the people I DO ask or "prospect" or whatever the heck you want to call it, I would say that about 40% or so say initially that they are keeping their options open.
Your second question here is the most important for business, for life and for whatever in my opinion. You like me Imran, whether you'll admit it or not, for the simple reason that I'M BEING HONEST WITH YOU! Be honest with people and expect mutual respect and you could ask a stranger if they wanted to join the circus and they won't feel awkward. Make it easy for a person to say what they want to say (including "nope- not right now") and they will never complain unless it their intended agenda to do so! Does that make sense? I rarely ever have negative reactions anymore because I listen to the other person more now. If any of you are married, there's another hint from me ;)

4) What are your monthly expenses on books and tapes? Don't you feel that theese teachings are bit redundant?

Standing order is about 50 bucks a month. (tape a week/ book a month) I buy additional tools when I need them (fancy that ;). CDs and tapes are same price at $8.20 after taxes, and I like to keep a good supply for showing the plan because not everyone returns my stuff!

Personal opinion: If you are not building the business tapes SHOULD get boring! I doubt you listen to tapes of your football coach yelling at you (if you play ball) in the off-season. The rantings mean a lot more when you are in the game though!!!!!! As far as business is concerned, the motivation is nice and all, and dreaming about what is possible is something most people enjoy, but when you look back at yourself sitting in front of the TV not doing anything it probably justs sounds more like "LOOK! THIS IS WHAT YOU CAN'T HAVE!" I listen to tapes because human interaction is subtle. My foot can apparently fit into my mouth at an infinite number of different angles ;) If I am going to go out and shake hands with a stranger, I like the reminders of how to maintain my integrity, honesty, self-respect and poise as well as the ever present expectation that OTHER PEOPLE can also succeed, NOT just me. Beyond that I've come to know a lot of the people that I listen to- it's pretty neat to hear people teach who you know and respect. Also, and you might be dissappointed with this explanation: Business (any business that is) is not like a liberal college philosophy class where the point is to learn to build a brand new idealogical foundation (whether real or not) and expound upon it. I'm pretty good at that myself. In business, like in the football example I used earlier, same old fundamentals ARE IMPORTANT. New ideas are awesome. New ideas that reject tested and reliable old ones without a second thought are not so awesome. Lot's of people try to build this business THEIR OWN (stupid) WAY! Not usually very successful other than as an example of what not to do! Get it? Repetition is a wonderful way to learn, if you have a problem with anything seeming repetitive. A lot of people could use a little common sense pounded repetitively into their brain if you ask me. Good and bad way TRULY exist for doing ANYTHING!!!!!

One last thing for the road:
-Truth doesn't change.
-Lot's of people want their own truth and set of rules to suit their needs and wants, but as much as they whine and complain and argue, if their "truth" isn't THE TRUTH, they can all STILL manage to be wrong.
-The Bible says something very simple: "the TRUTH will set you FREE"
-That is SO TRUE!

Have a great night everybody. I'll probably check in again sometime.

P.S. I have a question for you Imran. What do you want most of all? If that is too personal you don't need to answer.

Rob-

Perhaps you need to actually read this bible passage before you quote it. And then you need to think about what Jesus is saying.

The 'Truth' as it is referred to in the book of John (chapter 8) has to do with who Jesus is and not about the virtues of your 'business opportunity'.

Take a look at the context of this passage by going back to verse 13. You will see that Jesus is addressing the Pharisees who were intelligent enough to recognize the fact that Jesus was referring to his identity as the son of God. When he finally says "the truth will make you free." he is speaking of the truth of who he is and how once we understand who he is and acknowledge this truth, then we will be set free from the bondage of sin.

Hope this helps. But if you are looking for some actual Quixtar truth, perhaps you could enlighten yourself with this:

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/07/do_the_math.php#comments

Take care, Rob. And good luck.

Tim,

This is hilarious. The 'logic' used by Q people is so bad that you wonder if they are mentally impaired. It is similar to asking what the definition of 'is' is. The anti-Q people are, for the most part, calm and well-reasoned. The Q people are disingenuous at best. How do you accidentally duck and dodge substantive facts and questions?

What do you want most of all? If that is too personal you don't need to answer.

I want to have plastic surgery on my balls. See, I play ball!

I guess the simple answer here is, if Imran is right and you can't live without a right to sue, don't sign up. Simple enough?

No.

Here is a good discussion about it all. It's an MP3 so you can listen. A Bog shot lawyer is speaking on the arbitration.

http://www.qblogradio.com/?p=27

Rest, ok. you have amquix.info to read, quixtarblog.com is there. And this blog. You are already reading it. What ever you wanna do, best of luck.

Imran, maybe I shouldn't ask you anymore questions ;) You can keep your balls to yourself big guy. That did sound a little gay didn't it?

Nah, ask me questions. This is standard response to 'dream seekers of others' i.e. IBOs.

I was trying to figure out what your motivation for all this is and I think I was trying to dig too deep... I mainly want to know from you why you are so fired up about this topic.

My motivation: Tim writes a hell of a blog, wait, no, it's not Tim. Its IBOs who act so stupid that it's fun.

Did you have a lousy upline?

Yup. but here is a thing, it's not just one person. This whole MLM concept is flawed. These abuses are bi-products.

Did the "friend" who showed you the plan get all weird with you? Was that person a bossy jerk?

Aren't they all :) My story match up with so many.

Also- who's group did you sign up in, did you go to a function, meet anyone who didn't rub you the wrong way?

Gala LOS. Many ppl didn't rub me the wrong way. Of course they were charging heck of a money for stuff and I'd call stealing from me.

Or- and I'll be a little dissappointed with you if this is the case- did you just read up about Quixtar on-line and have nothing better to do than to mess with people ;) ?

No. I spent a year in Quixtar, Lost $10 K. Missed job opportunities. But I wish I was that one, read it online folk.

Check out my blog:

http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com/

One last fun thought for Imran, look up negative advertizing about Wal-mart- try typing into google "I hate Wal-mart" Then try "I hate McDonald's" Then try "I hate women" Then try "I hate Bush" Then try "I hate Kerry" Then try "I hate Papa Smurf" (I think one of the smurfs always said that). Then you can Type in "I hate Quixtar", "I hate Amway", "I hate meal replacement bars" or "The real truth about Walmart" and then "The real truth about space aliens" Maybe type in "I hate Imran" or "the real truth about Imran (hopefully the censored- balls-free version will come up) you might get some hits ;)

Good point. But I heard same from my upline as well. Think about it. Do people quit Quixtar / Amway just because they read it online? No, they don't. If that was true, I will stop going ot wal-mart as well just because some one says so.

Ppl quite quixtar because it makes sense what they read online and decide they are better of not doing it.

Whatever is online about Quixtar, e.g. here and on quixtarblog.com and amquix.info, makes sense. Having some one internet doesn't do any thing if it don't make sense. try setting up a page. No one will come if you don't have a good, interesting stuff. You'll get good ranking and traffic only when u have solid substance.

Diamond,

I or some one else will make 1 or 2 post and you'll go crying to your mamma. If you gonna stick then I can answer you!

Ok Mr. Diamond, Glad you got a backbone.

1) Why do you want us to go "away"? Millions of people are communicating using internet. Why you want ppl in this particular board in a Quixtar related topic go away? You don't like what we are saying? Or you are telling every one on internet in every blog / board / IRC channel to go away?

2) Ppl who post are doing some thing. Why you assume they are not?

3) That single lady went diamond. Where did she start? Amway or Quixtar?

4) How many Diamonds are Quixtar only diamonds, those who were NEVER in amway?

5) People who have different opinion than you are "chicken". That's mature!

Imran> well Diamond I'm glad you stayed.

Diamond> You never responded to my question as to why Bill Gates charges 200 $ for a CD?

Imran> I thought it was a joke. It is not CD / Tape hardware of course. Its the I/P. More on that later.

Microsoft OS delivers what it promises. (most of the time)

It says it will make spreadsheets, documents, operating system and it does. And one of he leading ones. So it is ok to pay $200 / CD. What does functions promise?

- Be a diamond in 2-5 years.
Well How many Quixtar Diamonds are there? It's been 5 years. Should be hundreds, if not thousands? See my point now?

Also, if CD is damaged, you get a new CD prompt if u ask them. If you lost a tape, do you get a new tape free?

Diamond> I never said go "away" I just said do some productive so you can be on a CD, so you will make the money.

Imran> I think most of the ppl (except me of course) are doing some thing positive, supporting their family and have absolutely no desire of lying on a CD. There are ton of lies on CDs. 2-5 years is one, freedom is another, independent is another.

Diamond> I don't know that neither I care because even if it takes 15 years for someone to go diamond, it is still worth it. Think.

Diamond, you didn't answer many of my points. I try to answer all of yours.

DIAMOND>Imran, can we agree that an average person (which includes most people out there) don't do this business the right way. It is not for everyone.

Imran> Agreed. They push / harass / insult / lie to people and they are the reason such sites exists. Instead of telling us to 'move' on, tell your IBO brothers to straight up their act.

Regarding all those ppl doing business the ‘wrong’ way , majority of them do something to make money right? But many of them lose money in Quixtar / Amway. Why is that?

If this business is not for every one, why is every one prospected? Seems grossly inefficient to me. If you want to scratch your nose, will you scratch whole body hoping itchy nose will get scratched? Nose may get scratched, (if you don't get tired) but the rest of the body will hurt. Same is the case with Quixtar. You may find some IBOs, rest don't even like to be prospected. There is something wrong. Can't you see?

Diamond> Oh By the way Imran, I am sure if these tapes/cds 'promised' financial freedom, then I think they should be worth alot more than 7 dollars and 95 cents. More like 200 dollars. Tapes/CD do not guarantee anything, it is a 2-5 year hope that if you follow the 9 core steps with heart, you will be successful.

Imran> I have also listened tapes my friend.

"You never built this business. But, I’ll guarantee ya one thing. You do what I recommend, I’ll guarantee ya this business will work for you. You just do what I recommend."
- Fred Harteis E-227 Audio tape

http://www.merchantsofdeception.com/casestudiesHarteis.html

2-5 year 'hope' is a false hope. No one has done it yet. Many follow 'core' steps. I did.

What would you say about a system which has not produced a single Diamond out of thousands of loyal IBOS who follow it religiously? What about a diet program that says loose x pounds if you follow these steps and no one losses that pounds despite following it?

Diamond> And do you ever wonder why people like Kumar have a huge successful business? while alot of people are not successful. Think about it. One guy is successful, and alot of people are not. Think. Its becuase he 'understood' the business.

He didnt just get lucky.

It is not understanding the business. It is not liking the business. He contacted every one. Many signed up, lost money and now don't like him. Some posted their experience on internet. Some avoid him now. 12 went platinum, in 20 years. Still don't see any thing wrong?

I was not buddy-buddy with him. It was an 'honor' to have a picture with EDC. It was 1000 PV leadership.

Why I hate him now?

I went there to learn business. Didn't, except promoted useless tools. I travelled with my parents 20 hours to NJ, in snow storm. Bought $700 worth of 'classic' tapes, paid good money for 'ticket' while I was unemployed. He was making me fool and laughing all the way to bank. That's why I don't like him now.

I was in business for one year. We went 1000 PV in our first full month. But soon find out that there is a lie after lie after lie and tapes are just peace of crap. No body was moving really. Market is saturated in North America, and now in India as well. See your open. Is it growing or shrinking? Most likely it'll be the same. 0.5% of population does MLM. Rest stay away. Just like X number of Doctors and Y number of engineers can be in country.

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/09/zero-population-growth.html

That's how I lost 10,000

I was 'in' for 10 months. Cost of being a 'Core', one who follow 9 core steps is $1000 CAD / month.

http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com/2004/08/cost-of-being-ibo.html

For the respect of many crossline, I am not posting their pictures with Kumar. They also look buddy-buddy, but have rather interesting words about him now.

So, you an Emerald? What is your level in the business?

I suggest you don't waste your time in this business. Ask the profit and loss statement of your upline. Not just cheque. You'll be out in few months, a year max.

I really didn't like many Diamond lifestyle btw. They are more busy than people with J.O.B. Just try watching them closely.

2-5 year plan is ‘possible’ if you treat this business like you treat your J.O.B.

Not for every one. Are you a "one in 95,454" kinda guy? So you treat it like J.O.B, find a lot of ppl losing money. How about them?

Under BWW system, since you are NOT guaranteed that you will go diamond or not because the decision is all up to you, it is fair that way not to replace the CD since you make percentage off your group numbers. It is the education business! Not the products business.

BWW is illegal btw in many countries. And it's under investigation.

The point here is just because average diamond income is low, does not mean you should give up a dream. ITS ALL UP TO YOU.

So, you'll be above average. Great. It's just wrong vehicle. An athlete can not race with my stupid corolla car, can he? MLM is mathematically flawed. Too many people are required to lose money so some can make. Why waste time and money here?

Why don’t you compare attending functions vs college education. It is the same thing.

:) You want me to make the comparison. Ok I'll bite. College v. The MLM "System"

Starting Q12 qualification in september with three legs going platinum.

A Q12, great. 'going' is in future, right? Right now, you are a platinum?

Just because you have a desire to make money one should not assume they do it the right way.

A wrong way should make little money. Not 'lose' money. Too many people do. Despite buying the tapes that tell them to do it the 'right' way. That's the irony.

How many people go exercise and work out even though they know it is the good thing for them?

Good point! Nowadays, MANY. Majority of people I know do.

Because you cannot find your platinums unless you dig enough. You have to talk to everyone. You never know who might go platinum. Just by their looks, we cant judge, sorry.

And the rest will end up here. ITS ALL UP TO YOU.

You are reading too much into one quote. The fact of the matter is he probably didn’t mean to sound like you are interpreting it. Anyway, 99% of the tapes would not say that. Find me quotes like these in more tapes and we will talk.

Why bother. I gave you one, you are asking me others. I'll give you more, you'll refuse them too. How about showing off of cars, boats, houses? You keep showing masses these pictures and ask them to sell it to other ppl and find othersand sell them too. And tell them I can't guarenttee you but if you keep selling these stupid things, you'll be like me.

Mathetics!! Some might, rest will end up losing money. This is exactly what happens in amway / Quixtar.

This is where ‘you’ come into picture. You decide if the program is good for you or not. For me BWW is awesome, and I am successful so I will keep on doing it. Not for you.

But you are successful because your downline is not. Tell me, how is their average bonus check? Do they turn profit after expenses? Or it's a negative pyramid if every one is counted?

Rest tomorrow ;)

Back from camping.

Imran: One success because of many failures. His business is successful for HIM. Is it not for his downline? I was in his downline; it was not successful for me. I lost $10 K. It is not successful for silvers, even rubies. Some of them I know personally. So we all unsuccessful pins make him successful. I don't know about them but I want to #$%#$ him. So does some crossline of mine.

Diamond: Again not his fault because other people do not get the business. He understood it that is why he is successful.

So, he went Diamond by lying to so many people. Lying And you say nothing is wrong? I don't remember him telling ROI of average IBO. It is basic info franchisers are required by law to disclose.

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/08/how-to-be-real-small-business-owner.html

I can be rich smuggling or killing or scamming or whatever. No, it's not worth it IMO. Is it?

There will still be doctors and engineers in coming years, just like diamonds and emeralds. Whether you think it has saturated or not.

Market speaks. Market has spoken it's need for IBOs.

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2004/09/zero-population-growth.html

Same # of IBOs for over 3 decades. New will come, after real hard work, old ones will quit. Top few selling hope will make money. Rank and file IBOs will lose money. If Rank and File Doctors and Engineers loses money, there will be strikes.

Stupidity never saturates.

That my friend is why MLMs and ponzi schemes are still around.

It's ok. I got your point, you cannot come up with the argument.

D'oh!

No, what is wrong with YOU?

My brain is working.

By the way, Imran, if you have listen to tapes you would know that at the end of every single tape/cd there goes something like "No one can guarantee that this will work for you, but we hope that the ideas presented here will assist you in developing a strong profitable business."

Just like health warning on Cigarette pack. I have given my arguments and you have given yours. Readers will decide.

Ok, BWW is illegal.

In my opinion, yes. They sell a product that is of zero value to non participants. It is illegal pyramid. Even Quixtar Founder, Rich Devos said so!!!! Along with other stuff.

And oh about H1, it is quixtar's responsibility to inform IBO who are H1. I don't see how it iwll be IBO's fault if they provide SS # and every other detail etc. INS cannot do anything.. HOw would an IBO know that they cant do this business if they are on h1?

Sponsor is supposed to tell them. It is sponsor's responsibility. The one who is signing up. He is responsible for all the income claims, product price comparisons and such. Read Quixtar rules. Quixtar OWN rules. IBO who is signing up is supposed to read all the rules. Just like you would if you open a McD.

4.17.1. In signing an IBO Registration Form or Notice of Intent to Continue, an IBO represents to the Corporation that there is no legal bar or limitation on his or her ability to meet the legal obligations of an IBO, whether such obligations are to the Corporation, government entities, itself, Members, Clients, or other IBOs. If there is an obstacle or limitation, the IBO must declare it.

And that’s how the real business works:

http://mlmlaw.blogspot.com/2005/08/how-to-be-real-small-business-owner.html

Broke people always give excuses. Winners will be DIAMONDS! in Quixtar!!

So many assumptions in two sentence! Who is broke? And what do you mean by Winner? Tiger Woods is a winner. He is no Diamond. I won at computer game. I'm not a Diamond.

13,000 ppl per Diamond, according to Quixtar's own number.

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/07/do_the_math.php

4-6 % of American families are millionaires.

What else I can do to help you understand! It is a negative sum game, harmful to the majority by design!

i need to be come a new member

John,

I'll gladly answer your challenges and questions:

Where in the world did you get the figure that 3.5% of people are millionaires. If you look at the real statistics from the social security website you would see that it is less than one quarter of one percent. I have no clue where you are pulling that figure out of.

omigod...this is the funniest thing i've read.

i recently went to a "function" as a guest. there was thousands of people there...so my first thought is "hey this might work!" then the speeches start. and wow! these people are nuts. most are well-intentioned and harmless(i call them the "fun crazies")...but scary enough you can see right away the ones that are not.

there was alot of "god" thrown around. i do believe in god, but i also have great respect for different religions, and to me a business function is not a religious event. i also believe that anyone's spirituality is sacred, and we live in a place where everything and everyone is disposable.. so i dont enjoy having anyone's religious point of view (irregardless if i agree) crammed down my throat.

then there was the "live life a little unbalanced for awhile, going diamond will make it all worth while" i'm sure that it would. if you get there. i have children...which as an IBO i'm supposed to put second in my life. "the business" of course is first. well this is what i've learned in life so far....nothing in life is a gaurantee...money, job, even marriages...BUT every moment you spend with your children is gauranteed a moment you've spent with your children. if it were to take me 5 years to hit diamond (i'm assuming i have a ton of horseshoes in some uncomfortable places) i would have an adult child, and one entering her teens. that's time lost. and no amount of money can undo that. i am not about to put my children in second place behind a "dream".

of course dreams are imparative. absolutely. they helps us grow, give us reason to push harder and try to get more out of life...but for everyone that spoke at this function...dreams are the only thing to focus on. if you focus so intensly on your dreams, you may run the risk of living your reality. i'm broke. i work a J.O.B, i run a little side business, i would love more money and time. BUT ... i have a great husband and two wonderful kids in my reality. without dreaming...there they are! and balance is crucial to enjoying life presently AND working towards your dreams. i lose respect for anyone who tells me different.

another thing i noticed...the people i went with are constantly prospecting. which is great for them..no skin off my back. but when someone asks you straight out if it's quixtar/amway and you straight out say no...that's an issue for me. it is lying. period.

i could go on with things i saw...but i do want point out some of the good. i'm a firm believer that you can learn something from everything. the trick is taking what you need and leaving the rest. they do teach leadership skills, and if you can remove the quixtar/amway stuff from it...there was alot that i've learned. alot can be said and accomplished in life with an attitude adjustment and a few skills in your pocket...will you go diamond...i doubt it. but you can apply these skills to other areas in your life. which i plan to do.

i've been thinking and pondering since the function. i use amway products...at first i would'nt have bothered with any of it...but because we use them at work i came to realize that some of the products are great. i'm used to paying more for a great product and i'm used to buying them through consultants/ibo's and such to get them. none of this bothers me. and with the amount that i buy ... i am going to fork out the $80 bucks for IBO status. whY? my friend is excited about the business. to sign me up helps her, and i already spend the money anyway. i have no intentions of doing anything further because of everything i saw at the function. i'll collect my $3 every month or so and call it a day. books tapes functions...i'll pass. i really dont agree with most of what they teach. it's a little cult-ish.

i'll be a "lazy IBO". HAHA. i laugh because i always look at who's judging me before i determine whether i should be offended or not. . maybe sitting on my butt watching tv will get me nowhere in life (who really has all that much tv watching time anyway) but watching american idol with my girls or going swimming instead of a meeting, or camping instead of a function is my idea of success. money doesn't buy happiness...and if you have to neglect everyone in your life to earn a dollar...then maybe that extra dollar isn't as valuable as you originally hoped.

my two cents.

Thank you Princess -- very interesting observations! Best to you.

hey wonderful guys!
I am in the begning of the quixtar's Trip.Do you this This trip will be worthful?

Very few people ever succeed in quixtar but if
you think you're the one in thousands who make it, and don't mind having most of your downline losing money to fund your wealth, then got for it.

Met these gentleman, nice, guy, eyes never moved, suit in NH. I am interested in your business, WOW, Great, Fantastic. We help alot of people. Yet, when we met he only had a soda. Used the same line I did, "Already Ate..." Right. Poor, broke and faking being rich.

1) Its two nights every week. Wrong, they keep you going until you drop
2) Majority knows it's fake. Sometimes the majority is right.
3) Participants always get hurt, owner makes a lot of money. Yep, Box scheme, Pyramid scheme, reverse pyramid scheme.
4) important events (Pay per view / rallies) are rediculously expensive, and are once a month, every month.
5) Majority of participants would never achieve superstar status, no matter how good or technically sound they are, unless they know how to entertain audience. You must have done something wrong buy the tape.
6) Mike skills are way more important than actual thing.
7) Women are at most a diva, nothing else. Split the family
8) Normal public thinks it's silly. Well, it is, despite lot of money. Conned become cons.
9) If you challange the owner, he'll screw you real bad (bret hart, bo short)State that you love them then beat them up...
10) Help of your manager / upline can make all the difference :)
Go to the ones that are perping wealth

Met these gentleman, nice, guy, eyes never moved, suit in NH. I am interested in your business, WOW, Great, Fantastic. We help alot of people. Yet, when we met he only had a soda. Used the same line I did, "Already Ate..." Right. Poor, broke and faking being rich.

1) Its two nights every week. Wrong, they keep you going until you drop
2) Majority knows it's fake. Sometimes the majority is right.
3) Participants always get hurt, owner makes a lot of money. Yep, Box scheme, Pyramid scheme, reverse pyramid scheme.
4) important events (Pay per view / rallies) are rediculously expensive, and are once a month, every month.
5) Majority of participants would never achieve superstar status, no matter how good or technically sound they are, unless they know how to entertain audience. You must have done something wrong buy the tape.
6) Mike skills are way more important than actual thing.
7) Women are at most a diva, nothing else. Split the family
8) Normal public thinks it's silly. Well, it is, despite lot of money. Conned become cons.
9) If you challange the owner, he'll screw you real bad (bret hart, bo short)State that you love them then beat them up...
10) Help of your manager / upline can make all the difference :)
Go to the ones that are perping wealth

I'm not sure what you people are talking about, but quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to me. With-in the next two years I will be a DIAMOND!!!! So stop with your negitive mind set and get up and do somthing.

Posted by: Shaun on March 23, 2004 01:14 PM

Joe> Hey Shaun, did you go diamond yet?

I just was approached by a quixstar IBO and got snookered into a intro seminar. They preached a 2-5 year wealth plan and that the average person will not be able to afford retirement (the latter being a partial truth). I was told afterward the target successful group was young people (early 20s). If they really want to succeed, why don't they approach successful businessmen who are well established with years of experience? They should take less training and should have more fundamental business skills to be successful. I guess its harder to sell tools to people that already have business experience. More inexperience = more training money to be made. Whatever happened to creative thinking to create wealth as opposed to trying to copy someone else’s plan? Not everyone is a highly charismatic, money making business person. Nor is everyone supposed to be. Yet quixstar wants you to believe that they can unlock your potential when not everyone has that part of them to be unlocked. But untill they figure that out, they will drop a few thousand on siminars and motivational CDs.

Zeke,

Your post is spot on. In my opinion, Quixtar people are less likely to succeed than the generl population for the very reasons you posted. They focus recruiting on young inexperienced people or whoever will listen. The more experienced and more successful people will not be interested in quixtar. Of course there will be an occasional doctor or other professional who will get sucked into the hype, but generally speaking (my opinion), these less experienced younger recruits will not succeed and qixtar's reputation will get worse as younger people will start to know about the deal.

A few other comments...

At the seminar I attended, I was told that the reason Quixstar is such a great deal is because in a normal business structure, the manufacturer ships to a distribution center, from this center to a retailer, and then from the retailer to the end user. The host of this event claimed that great savings are achieved because they have eliminated the middle men (distribution and retailers) and send directly to the end user, cutting out all the costs associated with shipping and making transactions between these different entities.

Upon further research on the Quixstar web page, I discovered that they have 6 distribution centers across the country with a combined 1.5 million square ft of warehouse space. So here is what really is taking place, the manufacturer ships to the distribution center just like they do in a standard business model, then the IBO gets to jump into the equation and play the part of the retailer, who in turn sells to the end user. THIS IS THE SAME NUMBER OF STEPS AS THE STANDARD BUSINESS SUPPLY CHAIN MODEL.

So now you as an IBO are supposed to by word of mouth and a little web space, out market massive retailing giants with millions of advertising dollars who stock many of the same or comparable products at the same or comparable prices. Who do you think is going to win? Oh and don't forget that those retail giants usually have websites to shop too, except they are easy to find and people know about them from billboards and TV ads as opposed to the IBO trying to run into people at a Panera Bread or the ball park to market their products.

When this IBO initially approach me, he gave me a business card with Hathaway Consulting as his business group. So now Hathaway Consulting is a sector of ICommerce, which is a part of Quixstar, sister company to Amway, owned by parent company Alticor and the list goes on. There is no brand awareness in this business. It is true in virtually every business model that a company wants to minimize down to one, perhaps two brand names depending on the industry. Why doesn’t Alticor just consolidate into one brand name (both Amway and Quixstar carry some of the same products anyway) and create a master brand that everyone will remember when they hear it? It seems to me that as soon as one brand gets a bad reputation (which they all keep doing due to fraud and poor business practices either on the drone level or even by upper management) they just make up a new one and keep going. They will never be able to keep a solid band name that the greater majority will recognize and think positively about when they hear it.

And as a $7 billion company, why have they not gone public yet to increase wealth through shareholding and raise capitol to increase the business potential? I am sure that the 3 million IBOs of the world would be buying the stock at an outlandish rate because the success of Alticor has a direct effect on their businesses as well. Give your IBO’s the chance to invest into “the bizz,” which they work so hard to expand, and make a return instead of "the family" keeing all of the profits.

"The family" has a great racket going on. I am almost impressed by their success except for the fact that it was achieved through the hard work of their drones who are popping in their motivational CD's every day as they have been instructed to keep the pipe dreams alive.

QUixtar has replaced the middlemen with themselves and in some cases, replaced the middlemen with ever more middlemen!

By the way, even at IBO prices, often times WalMart is cheaper. Factor in the extra shipping costs and other factors and IBOs simply cannot compete with the big stores. It's actually comical that IBOs try to debate this issue.

By the way, with a 2-5 year plan, quixtar has how many "quixtar only" diamonds? Meaning an IBO who signed up after 9/1/99 and went diamond?

What happened to all the drones?

Perhaps Quixtar has finally collapsed in the US. I've noticed a serious drop-off on the conservation on these threads -- and most of the few remaining visitors seem to come from overseas.

While I enjoyed the visits, I'd much rather see it become increasingly obscure: I think the word has gotten out, as it did with Quixtar.

Probably the Diamonds will "sleep" for a while, or find something else to pursue, some different angle -- and then, after a while, and after a new generation forgets, it -- or something like it -- will come back again, under a different name.

Xango anyone? ;-)

Haha, actually Tim, the old drones have been replaced by new ones who haven't discovered your blog yet.

Tim, Quixtar is still alive, thank you =)

The only thing that attracted my attention was the picture of my friend Kumar, who is doing exceptionaly well for a person of his AGE, having both - $ & TIME to enjoy it.

I didn't have time to read all the posts, but I'm sure that they covered anything that is humanly possible to cover about "this mysterious company - Quixtar", as somebody said.

I read one comment about being an educated consumer and shop on the website for savings. I loved it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The main thing is to know your level of ones excitment & ability to work hard without anybody wathing.

If you are NOT self starter and only work as much as needed not to be fired - this business is not for you. Join my friend, who saves money shopping in Partner store section.

The good news - You don't even have to pay that fee anymore to get the instant savings, just ask your IBO to get you Free membership.........only if you shop regularly and want to receive a "rebate" check on volume created, then you might need to pay that fee.

Wish everybody Happy Holidays.
=))

"Observer",

It would seem they're dredging though the college students, still.

To understand the major criticisms I (and many others) have of Quixtar, simply click on the "Quixtar" topic to the left and read a few articles.

You imply, for example, that only lazy people (who know how to spell) would avoid this business:

The main thing is to know your level of ones excitment & ability to work hard without anybody wathing. If you are NOT self starter and only work as much as needed not to be fired - this business is not for you.

But that's how Quixtar tells an IBO to think about criticism: That the only people who would disagree must have some character defect, or be jealous, or lazy, etc.

No: Most the people I know who oppose this are very hard working and pro-capitalistic. I myself have my own business (low maintenance and brings in a bit each year), and am also involved in a fast-growing startup as my main job. Imran runs his own business.

Our arguments are rather simple: The average IBO will only make a pittance every month ($115 at last check) and most will try hard but drop out. People don't "fail" at Quixtar because they are lazy: instead, some fail because how the people at the top make their money. (In fact, the sad irony is that it is the hardest-working ones who tend to fail the most spectacularly.) That failure is a built-in part of the way the "business" operates, and cannot be eliminated by working or trying harder.

Show me a better way out of my financial situation and a path to my dreams and I'll gladly follow..if not..then shut up.

Micky, if I told you walking off a cliff was not good for you, would you still do it if I didn't offer a better solution?

Mickey,

Show me a better way out of my financial situation and a path to my dreams and I'll gladly follow..if not..then shut up.

Since the average Quixtar IBO earns, at last check, just $115 a month it means you'll be earning FAR less than minimum wage. (And that's BEFORE expenses!)

What this means, Mickey, is that working at McDonald's is a "better way out of my financial situation".

Do you understand? You will earn LESS though Quixtar than you will though the lowest-paying minimum wage job you can imagine.

That means EVERYTHING -- *EVERYTHING* is a better opportunity.

Tim, when you add in the "system" expenses, which makes most IBOs take a net loss, then
panhandling, watching TV, sleeping are all activities that net you more cash than quixtar.

Hello ! i'm agilen
you no what do i think about quixtar?
the guy who work more gets payd more.
guy like ho'v done nothin cant speak about this buisness. Each of all diamonds pays 400$ month or more and got a 7.50$ chec yes !!!!!!
and when you buy things in wal mart do they pay you a chec ??????
and stop talking about the top guy making more money.Unlike you guys the'r not ppl hwo waste time wrinting unuseful comments.
Even if you sucide yourself Quixtar will be a good company and will be in the top 5

agilen,

you no what do i think about quixtar? the guy who work more gets payd more.

You seem to have confused Quixtar with havi ng a normal job. In a normal job, if you work more, you get paid more. In Quixtar, the people who work the most often get paid the least.

Each of all diamonds pays 400$ month or more and got a 7.50$ chec yes !!!!!!

Diamonds make money selling tools. You won't.

and when you buy things in wal mart do they pay you a chec ??????

No: and that should tell you something. You can't get something for nothing. It's foolish to believe can make money by only buying stuff.

Even if you sucide yourself Quixtar will be a good company and will be in the top 5

Niiiice. (Plan to win many converts this way?)

Do you know where Quixtar's money comes from? It comes from IBOs like yourself. You're not Quixtar: if they're making money by selling things to you, it doesn't mean you'll make money by buying things.

You know what a casino is? They advertise that you can come in, gamble, and become rich. But that's not what happens: they get richer, you get poorer.

You're not the casino, and you're not Quixtar.

some ppl are not born with a pin called diamond
they become.
they go trew the same trobles that we'r going trew
Net work marketing is called a duplikation buisness for a reason. And stop saying that the top guy makes the more money.Could you work in the same company and make more cash then your boss??? no way
The quixtar case is different, in 2006 all ibo's made more money than the founder of quixtar .
The founder of quixtar has'nt even made 10percent of all ibo's togather, so Quixtar is'nt making money it's us.

Quote "I'm not sure what you people are talking about, but quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to me. With-in the next two years I will be a DIAMOND!!!! So stop with your negitive mind set and get up and do somthing.

Posted by: Shaun on March 23, 2004 01:14 PM"

Hey Shaun, your two years have passed. No diamond club yet?

I keep hearing duplication. What are you duplicating? Most active CORE IBOs do 100 PV and lose money due to the system expenses. Is that what you are duplicating?

Agilen wrote: I agree with you
next two years we'll meet in peter island
My name is Agilen remember it.

Joe says: We will. Looks like Shaun didn't make it.

Quixtar is simply a caste system.

Anonymous wrote:

winners are positiv
WHINERS ARE NEGATIV

winners make money
WHINERS MAKE EXCUSES

winners take responsibilities
WHINERS TAKE ANVANTAGE

winners build up
WHINERS TEAR DOWN

winners attack problemes
WHINERS ATTACK WHINERS

hahahaha !!!!

this is for you WHINERS

Joe says "Sounds like you're doing all the whining." :)

Anonymous,

Yes, it's bad to criticize something without understanding it. So I'd say the same to you: try to learn what the critics say before you tell them they have no right to talk or are wrong. You're doing exactly what you accuse others of: trying to shut people up without understanding what they've said.

There's nothing wrong with buying products you like -- from Quixtar or anyone else. If you like the product, no problem! The problem comes when you think you're going to "make money" by buying things, and by signing up more people. That doesn't work out well, friend.

The average active IBO earns less than $115 per month -- BEFORE expenses. Get that?

i'm half embarrassed to tell people i'm a member because of all this negative publicity.

Gee: if you're just buying for yourself, and that's all that's going on, then why do you care if it's hard to tell people you're a "member"? I shop at Target: do you think I'm busy trying to get others to do so? Do you think I'd care if other people didn't like Target?

evertything in life is a pyramid.

Yes, but not everything in life is a pyramid scheme. In a real business, you sell to a person called a CUSTOMER, who is OUTSIDE the organization. In a "pyramid scheme", the money is made almost exclusively from people INSIDE the organization.

you people ever sell insurance thats the biggest pyramid scam in the world but you all have insurance.

No, insurance is NOT a pyramid scheme. Insurance companies sell to OTHER people than their agents, called "customers". They don't try to make money by convincing everyone to become an insurance agent and "buy from themselves."

You should notice the difference between those two situations. It's the difference between a "business" and a "pyramid scheme."

if that offends you then f*** off.... otherwise shut the h*** up and quit knocking me for trying something while you run your mouth.

I'm not knocking you, friend: I simply hope to give people information that might save them money -- provided they're not too arrogant to look at both sides of an issue. If that offends you, then perhaps you should take your own advice.

And learn some manners.

A classic example of the fine people who are attracted to this scam.

"evertything in life is a pyramid."

Yes, there may be hierarchies in business, churches, etc. Difference is that quixtar
big pins make their money from their downline, unlike other things in life that have hierarchies.

So the average IBO earns 115 a month??? huh well whats average? I know! Its THE BEST OF THE WORST, AND THE WORST OF THE BEST!!! So if you average youll be crappy in this. but if your above, then youll do good, it's a flawless plan.

Bomber: So the average IBO earns 115 a month??? huh well whats average? I know! Its THE BEST OF THE WORST, AND THE WORST OF THE BEST!!! So if you average youll be crappy in this. but if your above, then youll do good, it's a flawless plan.

Joe: And what have you personally accomplished with this flawless plan?

Thousands of people each day walk in and out of Costco. The shoppers pay a yearly fee to shop there and never receive any money for doing it. The workers make the same hourly wage regardless of how many people do or don't walk through the store at any given time. BUT... get a lotta lotta people to walkin and out and who makes the money? The uplevel organization that is Costco. This goes on daily in any retail organization without question.

Quixtar IBO's pay a premium, but get a retun on their purchases. The more people they get to purchase from their site, the more money they can make. This option is also available to 100% of all customers. But this is called a scam.

Why do we willingly give our hard earned dollars to big business without question, then label a way to get money back a scam?

Do your uplines make money off you? Absolutely! But why do I care if I am making someone $1000 by earning $100 that I didn't have before?

Every business has a hierarchy and the top ones make the most. Rick Wagoneer made 6 million while GM tanked. He's still working, but thousands of "worker bees", whose performance levels never waviered, got axed.

My neighbor got me into Quixtar. He is heck bent on making this wor for the both of us. If I'm working on my car or trailer, he'll come by with a tool box and wrench with me until 4:00 am. He is a true friend who wants everyone to exploit the TEAM's capabilities for all they can do for you.

I don't care about becoming a millionaire. I'm looking for a way to make about $500 a month extra. In less than one year, I am at about $100. Doesn't sound like much, but it is a profit. How many other business do you know that you can start for under $300 and see a profit in the first few months?

I don't let myself get brainwashed or wide-eyed. I work towards my goal and ask that His will be foremost in my life. In the end, with Christ as my savior, and accepting His grace, I can not go wrong.

Good luck to all that you do.

In the end, with Christ as my savior, and accepting His grace, I can not go wrong.

I'd agree that in the end, you cannot go wrong in Christ, but that doesn't mean we can't hurt other people needlessly on the way there. As Paul the Apostle said: "Shall we go on sinning so that grace may increase? By no means!" (Rom 6)

Why do we willingly give our hard earned dollars to big business without question, then label a way to get money back a scam?

As I've said what seems to be hundreds of times now, there's nothing wrong with buying and selling -- and nothing wrong with saving money. But when you think you'll make more money by "signing up" people, you run into trouble.

Also, it's not good to fool yourself.

I don't care about becoming a millionaire. I'm looking for a way to make about $500 a month extra. In less than one year, I am at about $100. Doesn't sound like much, but it is a profit. How many other business do you know that you can start for under $300 and see a profit in the first few months?

You should at least be concerned about making the most for your effort. And doing correct accounting. How much do you spend on gas? How many hours a week are you putting in? How much are you really saving (or losing!) by buying Alticor product? How much are tools and events costing you, in total?

Do the math, friend, and you'll find out you're making less than minmum wage -- and probably still operating at a loss.

$100 a month? Did you know that, at last check, the average IBO "made" only $115 per month -- before expenses? To answer your question:

How many other business do you know that you can start for under $300 and see a profit in the first few months?

Almost every opportunity I can think of. Say I decide to start working at McDonalds. I will make more than you have suggested here: they think my time is more valuable than Quixtar does. I'll at least make ten times as much -- $1,000 per month -- from them.

You feel for those poor GM workers who you think have no future. But the average turnover in Quixtar is about 50% per year, and what "retirement plan" or "401K" do they offer? Or did we become millionaires on $115 a month -- about $3 per hour?

Many people give up real educational opportunities or money-making opportunities -- and sometimes their own families -- for this fool's gold. That's evil, friend. Evil.

And you can't prove me wrong until you can get the numbers and show it's NOT the waste I tell you it is. Do it. Show me wrong. Do the research, before trying to talk everyone into following you.

What is that saying? When the blind lead the blind, they all fall into a ditch!

Think, friend: God didn't design you to put in so much labor for nothing. Demand more for your God-given skills.

And how are you presenting this to other people? With integrity? With honesty? Do you *warn them* they'll only make about $100 per month, BEFORE expenses? Wouldn't you like to have known that? Do you warn them that the average turnover for Quixtar exceeds 50% per year? Why not? Do you tell them honestly how much work you have put in, how you were encouraged to spend on other things, and how very little you have made?

Or do you go along with the standard practice of trying to hide these future pressures and demans until they're far enough in?

Shouldn't they know all that up front to make a good business decision? Isn't that the sort of thing a wise investor would want to know before getting involved?

And if you won't tell them these things, are you admitting you'll do so because you're afraid it would hurt your "profits"?

Think about it. Who are you serving here?

God bless you.

Tim,

Just to add in some food for thought: An average diamond makes $149,000 or so. For all you IBOs out there, answer this question.

After taxes and business expenses, $149,000 is more like $80,000. Now your diamond wife can't work, your kids go to private school, you own a mercedes and a mansion and you go on fabulous vacations, have special golf club memberships.

How is all that paid for on $80,000 net income?

WOW! I can't believe I started to read these ridiculous blogs... I read several and noticed that I wasn't even a quarter the way through this [mostly] negative banter.

Note - these are only opinions by people who've either seen the Quixtar marketing plan or who just heard of it and perceived it to be illegal, before acquiring the facts from viable sources. Most likely, these are the opinions of people who are just too afraid to actually join the business, because logically it makes sense and they don't have a dream/goal to work towards OR they joined the organization and quit the business within 3 weeks because of unrealistic expectations and WITHOUT taking the help of the person who referred them to learn how to make this business work for themselves.

First of all, Check with the Better Business Bureau (bbb.org) AND the Federal Trade Commission (www.ftc.gov) and see what they have to say. These are non-for-profit and gov't entities that regulate business in America. Don't you think if this was illegal or unethical it would have been found to be YEARS ago by the SEC and many other gov't agencies who look for fraudulent activities in the marketplace? Bottom line is that any company who's extremely successful will get a lot of attacks. Type any big business in any search engine and see what comes up. Even the people who write negative stuff about Microsoft type it into internet on MS hardware and software. Look, if what you believe to be the truth - then that's your belief. I just hope you're this critical about everything in your life and not just this business. It's an opportunity that NO ONE else can give you. Is it easy - NO WAY! It takes work and dedication,but the basis is that you have something to work towards as your own goal to achieve then with your own hard and smart work, you can make it happen, no question about it. The only question is how bad do YOU want what you say you want. If you're ambitious, this is for you...if not, do not waste your time or the person who referred you... try some products - they're truly amazing. Plus they all come wiht a 6 month money back guaranty (no other retail store can say that). I'm a Quixtar IBO and this business has brought nothing but success to me and my family's life - in so many areas; Financially, Spiritually, Emotionally and many more...

There's nothing I can say to defend Alticor, Amway (Quixtar's Sister Company) or Quixtar? They have a legal team to handle that. Check with the IBOAI (http://www.iboai.com/). The thing is that if people are going to knock it, that's ok. Not everything is for everybody. But while you sit here on your computer writing emails, paying your bills, and doing whatever you do on the internet, calling in slick to work maybe once every month, taking a 1-2 week vacation a year and basically going to that job you say you "love" (you really do not love your job, you love your paycheck) - IBO's will be making new friends, changing lives in a positive way, working from home and being able to raise our own families (be there for our child's 1st word or the 1st time they took their 1st steps), and creating true freedom for many people who we love and want to be with for the rest of our lives... That's called a purpose - it's non-selfish and for the betterment of our community and friends and family. When people go to work, most of the time they never give tithings, and just live for themselves and their families, but never think of the betterment of thy neighbor. That's selfish. That's not success. Success means how many people are better off because you lived.

I do hope you make the right decision to not write this business off as being non-viable. Please check the sources of your information and make sure they're credible. If the person you get your information from doesn't have a financial interest in you, what does it matter what they tell you. Advice is free. Will that person offer you a better opportunity to gain time and money? Do they have a job? Do they make the same or less money than you - the question is what can they offer?

I really hope that you think twice about this opportunity and change your mind from all the uninformed opinions you've collected to getting around some people who are successful through this business.... Because it all comes down to this - If you were interested in going to college who would you ask? A graduate or a drop out? Get more information from credible sources like these:

www.bbb.org
www.ftc.gov
www.quixtarfacts.com
www.thisbiznow.com
www.iboai.com/

WOW! I can't believe I started to read these ridiculous blogs... I read several and noticed that I wasn't even a quarter the way through this [mostly] negative banter.

Note - these are only opinions by people who've either seen the Quixtar marketing plan or who just heard of it and perceived it to be illegal, before acquiring the facts from viable sources. Most likely, these are the opinions of people who are just too afraid to actually join the business, because logically it makes sense and they don't have a dream/goal to work towards OR they joined the organization and quit the business within 3 weeks because of unrealistic expectations and WITHOUT taking the help of the person who referred them to learn how to make this business work for themselves.

First of all, Check with the Better Business Bureau (bbb.org) AND the Federal Trade Commission (www.ftc.gov) and see what they have to say. These are non-for-profit and gov't entities that regulate business in America. Don't you think if this was illegal or unethical it would have been found to be YEARS ago by the SEC and many other gov't agencies who look for fraudulent activities in the marketplace? Bottom line is that any company who's extremely successful will get a lot of attacks. Type any big business in any search engine and see what comes up. Even the people who write negative stuff about Microsoft type it into internet on MS hardware and software. Look, if what you believe to be the truth - then that's your belief. I just hope you're this critical about everything in your life and not just this business. It's an opportunity that NO ONE else can give you. Is it easy - NO WAY! It takes work and dedication,but the basis is that you have something to work towards as your own goal to achieve then with your own hard and smart work, you can make it happen, no question about it. The only question is how bad do YOU want what you say you want. If you're ambitious, this is for you...if not, do not waste your time or the person who referred you... try some products - they're truly amazing. Plus they all come wiht a 6 month money back guaranty (no other retail store can say that). I'm a Quixtar IBO and this business has brought nothing but success to me and my family's life - in so many areas; Financially, Spiritually, Emotionally and many more...

There's nothing I can say to defend Alticor, Amway (Quixtar's Sister Company) or Quixtar? They have a legal team to handle that. Check with the IBOAI (http://www.iboai.com/). The thing is that if people are going to knock it, that's ok. Not everything is for everybody. But while you sit here on your computer writing emails, paying your bills, and doing whatever you do on the internet, calling in slick to work maybe once every month, taking a 1-2 week vacation a year and basically going to that job you say you "love" (you really do not love your job, you love your paycheck) - IBO's will be making new friends, changing lives in a positive way, working from home and being able to raise our own families (be there for our child's 1st word or the 1st time they took their 1st steps), and creating true freedom for many people who we love and want to be with for the rest of our lives... That's called a purpose - it's non-selfish and for the betterment of our community and friends and family. When people go to work, most of the time they never give tithings, and just live for themselves and their families, but never think of the betterment of thy neighbor. That's selfish. That's not success. Success means how many people are better off because you lived.

I do hope you make the right decision to not write this business off as being non-viable. Please check the sources of your information and make sure they're credible. If the person you get your information from doesn't have a financial interest in you, what does it matter what they tell you. Advice is free. Will that person offer you a better opportunity to gain time and money? Do they have a job? Do they make the same or less money than you - the question is what can they offer?

I really hope that you think twice about this opportunity and change your mind from all the uninformed opinions you've collected to getting around some people who are successful through this business.... Because it all comes down to this - If you were interested in going to college who would you ask? A graduate or a drop out? Get more information from credible sources like these:

www.bbb.org
www.ftc.gov
www.quixtarfacts.com
www.thisbiznow.com
www.iboai.com/

Kevin, nice "tapespeak".

First, the FTC never investigated quixtar, although they did check out Amway in 1979 and found them legal, but in violation of some thing like overexaggerated income claims.

The BBB says quixtar settles compaints in a satisfactory manner, but does not bestow quixtar a "special" status that many IBOs imply.

And by the way, crystal meth is illegal but somehow still gets sold on the streets.

Did you hear that there is currently a class action lawsuit against BWW and WWDB for being illegal pyramids? Yes, a system where only the participants purchase the product might just be an illegal pyramid. We shall see.

Note - these are only opinions by people who've either seen the Quixtar marketing plan or who just heard of it and perceived it to be illegal...

Then you score a zero on reading comprehension, as I, the guy who wrote most the entries here, only argued it's unprofitable and unethical.

You're welcomed to answer those arguments, but most IBOs aren't willing to. So the straw man is offered: "You say it's illegal!" rather than actually reading and thinking about the actual criticisms being offered.

As Joe said, nice tapespeak.

A lot of guys like Drew, Tim, Joecool, Imran and others are actively working since a long time to create awareness among people who might become prey to Quixtar IBOs. Thanks Guys, pls keep doing the good work.

I was contacted recently by a lot of Indian Students and other immigrants who think they have found the true path to success. They don't realize that they are being played. Part of the reason is, a lot of immigrants don't know abt Amway (Quixtar) before arriving to USA. They seem to believe their uplines could never cheat them(who usually happen to be immigrants too). Quixtar and its Diamonds(especially in the GALA group) are taking advantage of this lack of knowledge in immigrants to con them. They are now targeting STUDENTS and IMMIGRANTS like never before. It has become a hard sell for the IBOs to sell this crap to Americans, so what to do??? Sell this to immigrants!!!!

We need to get our message across the immigrant community to prevent them from this scam.

Kicked Wrote: "A lot of guys like Drew, Tim, Joecool, Imran and others are actively working since a long time to create awareness among people who might become prey to Quixtar IBOs. Thanks Guys, pls keep doing the good work."

Joe says: Thanks, my goal is to get prospects to actually research quixtar. If they research and decide to go for it, then more power to them. What is troubling is when quixtar/amway reps tell their prospects not to do research or to only ask people who are in the business.

Chris, at least Walmart employees make money. 100% of them who do some work for Walmart are compensated.

In contrast, the vast majority of people who register for quixtar end up losing money. The "system" makes sure that any earnings an IBO earns goes to the big pins.

Also, Walmart products have so much more value. I got to Walmart, I can get a cartlod of stuff for $100. What do you get from quixtar? A bottle of double X and a case of XS?

Chris: Walmart compensates its workers for every hour they put in. Compare it to Quixtar, you get nothing. According to Quixtar's own reports, an average IBO makes 166$ per month. Now do you think this is better than walmart. How would you like if Walmarts implements a business plan similar to Quixtar i.e Work for free, buy marked up products from walmart, buy books and CDs continously to learn to buy from Walmart, and recruit others to do the same. In terms of compensation if the manager makes Outrageous money when his subordinates are losing money, Would you like such a plan???

Quixtar is not a pyramid, it is a "PYRAMID Scheme" bcos there is no money coming from outside, the IBOs consume all its products. If you refer to Quixtar's records, you will find how small the percentage of products retail is compared to the gross sales.

Why do you still believe that in 2-5 yrs anyone can become financially free, its just a hoax, maybe some guy might have become diamond in 5 yrs but that is an exception and not a rule.

When you say many people don't follow the plan laid out for them, I am assuming the plan laid out by their upline(s). It is the upline who teach their downlines to trick people into attending an open meeting. What you see many IBOs doing is a behaviour imparted on them by their UPLINES.

Chris, If Quixtar is ethical and clean, why do IBOs trick people by not telling the name of the business as AMWAY (Quixtar). Why do they have to hide behind cliches like "Private Franchising", "E-Commerce business", "Retailing" etc. If you have nothing to hide, "Just say I am with AMWAY/QUIXTAR " and then show the plan.

Chris said: If they just follow the plan it would have given them a better chance of succeeding

Joe says: No it wouldn't. The reason why people quit is not because they cannot follow the plan. They follow it and see no results. It then becomes a wise (and easy) business decision to quit.

I followed the plan exactly as advised by my upline. I attended every function, meeting, seminar, phone meetings, product meetings. Followed everything down to the last words as suggested by my upline. Blocked out all negative thoughts, avoided friends who I thought were negative, listened to tapes everywhere(even in bathroom), was looking out for prospects everytime, all the time, thinking only about the business, showed the plan atleast 10 times a month. Drove miles like crazy. Followed all the core steps,tips from the tapes, functions etc etc.

Even after 3 years, I just could'nt break even and none of my downlines were making any sort of income.

If this is not following the plan then what is ???? The plan doesn't work, it doesnt work for many, according to Quixtar's own records, the chances of a person becoming a diamond is 0.0076 percent, chances of becoming emerald is 0.0458 percent. If you follow the plan this is the success rate!!!! How can anyone say it works for many people when the statistics prove it does'nt work for many???

The bottomline is the business model itself is flawed.The business does'nt generate money, all money is acquired from the lower level IBOs, the money flows bottom-up in this business.

The plan is made by the kingpins to fill their own pockets at the cost of ordinary IBOs......

Anonymous wrote:"My Upline and my team are not even pushing the Seminars and conference"

Every IBO uses this line to defend Quixtar. Why don't you come up with something new, instead of using cliches????

Your post speaks in length about the mindset of a typical Quixtar IBO.

And stop degrading honest, hardworking people at Walmart(or anyone who is not in Quixtar).

Hahahahahaha,

The door greeters at Walmart all make more on average than an IBO. Quixtar itself says the average "active" IBO earns $115 a month. All that for 10-12 hours a week. In the "best case" scenario, the IBO makes $2.87 an hour.

That's probably comparable to working in a sweat shop somewhere.

Don't fool yourselves with your "business" mentality because you don't own a business. You are a lowly compensated commisioned salesperson for quixtar.

Anonymous wrote: "The Diamonds on that tapes that you said you listed to even stated that seminars & conference are not as important as establishing and geting the quality of people into the Business. Your a failure as an IBO and so as the rest of the IBOs that failed started blaming the Business. Where in fact you know from the start that there is no guarantee & you set your own pace in this business. "

Does Every tape say this anonymous??? Are you sure ?? Are you sure, the diamonds don't say follow 'THE SYSTEM' ??? Are you sure the diamonds don't say "If you want to go Diamond then follow the system, follow the core steps"???

This time please answer my questions directly either in YES or NO instead of referring to my lack of common sense. By attacking critics, you are avoiding the real questions raised by the them!!!!!!

Anonymous keeps bringing up "Walmart greeters".

Why do you quixtar zealots have to put down honest people who work for a living? There's nothing wrong with having a job. In fact nearly all IBOs have 2 JOBS. One real job to pay their bills and their quixtar expenses, and then a quixtar job where you lose money.

In any scenario you can imagine with "system IBOs", their group will always lose money collectively. It's the nature of a pyramid shaped business. (I did not say illegal)

An example of quixtar IBO integrity!

Amway distributors face $19 million judgment in suit

By Geoffrey Fattah
Deseret Morning News
A case of rumor mongering that over the years took on the stuff of urban legend has cost four Amway distributors dearly.
After some 12 years working its way through the courts, a federal jury in Salt Lake City on Monday levied a $19.25 million judgment against the distributors for spreading the rumor that the company Procter & Gamble, and their old corporate logo, were linked with Satanic worship.

Anonymous,

Quixtar did not kick out these IBOs who started the satanic rumor. One of them is on the IBOAI
(Haugen).

I don't know why you call them IBOs. They are not "independent". You can't advertise, your website has a password, you can't make your own website, you can't do any other MLM while in quixtar, you cannot even sell XS in a bar, unless the label is hidden. What is independent about all these restrictions?

Don't even talk about someone's upline who thinks they are your boss.

Anonymous, it is not a pending lawsuit. There is a $19 million dollar judgement against these 4 IBOs, one of whom is on the IBOAI.

http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,660204650,00.html

Why do these anonymous IBOs always run away when confronted with the truth?

Kevin said: I really hope that you think twice about this opportunity and change your mind from all the uninformed opinions you've collected to getting around some people who are successful through this business.... Because it all comes down to this - If you were interested in going to college who would you ask? A graduate or a drop out? Get more information from credible sources like these:

www.bbb.org
www.ftc.gov
www.quixtarfacts.com
www.thisbiznow.com
www.iboai.com/

Joe says: The BBB says quixtar settles complaints satisfactory. Quixtar has a satisfactory rating - when I last checked.

The FTC says nothing about quixtar. Amway in 1979 was found legal, but was fined for IBOs making overstated income claims.

The other sites have things like the average IBO earns $115 a month. 340,000 active IBOs, 50% or more quit each year, your chance of going diamond is about 1 in 14,000, chance of going platinum is about 1 in 240.

Hey Kevin, is that what you found too?

Hey Kevin - I'm still waiting for a response!

Shaun said: I'm not sure what you people are talking about, but quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to me. With-in the next two years I will be a DIAMOND!!!! So stop with your negitive mind set and get up and do somthing.
Posted by: Shaun on March 23, 2004 01:14 PM

Joe says: It is now three years later. Were there any diamonds named "Shaun" recently?

im just new here, growing up my life in nyc. i heard alot of stories abt Quixtar. one of my friends is just member of Q, making almost 1g monthly, i saw her check was real. she didnt have a job so far while shes in fresh year community college.

so, i have a serious question, is Quixtar real?

talk to me, jheras@gmail.com

i heard alot of stories abt Quixtar. one of my friends is just member of Q, making almost 1g monthly, i saw her check was real. she didnt have a job so far while shes in fresh year community college.

Ah yes. The "showing of the check." Does she have downlines? Part of that check is meant to go to them. And I'd say you should ask her how much time she spent, but my experience has been that you don't get honest answers to that question.

When I was in your shoes, I had a hard time gauging this that trick too -- but I had hints my prospective "upline" was lying to me. I had asked her how many hours a week she did this: she insisted it was 8-10. But I kept track of her time, and it added up to far more, just counting the time she spent with me, an IBO I knew, and at the meetings.

Later, I discovered that this is a standard trick: they show you a check, but don't mention that they have to pay other people out of it, and don't give you an honest accounting of their total contribution required to get that check.

so, i have a serious question, is Quixtar real?

Shaun said: I'm not sure what you people are talking about, but quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to me. With-in the next two years I will be a DIAMOND!!!! So stop with your negitive mind set and get up and do somthing.
Posted by: Shaun on March 23, 2004 01:14 PM

Joe says: What happened to Shaun?

Shaun?

I really get a kick out of IBOs like Shaun. :D

Let's say 100 IBOs averages $115 as Tim writes.

That means collectively, the made $11,500. Assuming 100 PV costs about $280, the 100 IBOs spent $28,000 and quixtar returned to them $11,500 in bonuses.

Now of course in a group of about 100, about 98 of them got $7, which is $686. The other two are probably at the platinum level making about $5417 each (gross).

Mathematically, that's all they can make, unless all of their sales went to non-IBOs.

It doesn't sound that attractive broken down that way, at least to me.

Also, where did the bonuses come from? The IBO purchases right? So if quixtar pays 32 of their gross as IBO bonuses, they would have to overcharge IBOs at least 33% to make any profit no?

Damn you ppl are sick
I know ppl who are succeding and who are willing to. . .Ppl who realy go diamond are those who never visit this kinna websites and read these kinna blogs. Damn and you guys are really enjoying comparing walmart and quixtar LET ME ASK SOMETHING

if i spend 250$ at walmart for ten years,
and'i spend 250$ at quixtar for ten yers,

WHO"S GONNA PAY ME MORE ??????????????????????????????????????

walmart wont even give you a cent but quixtar. . .gives me *1260$* how's that

Agilen said: Ppl who realy go diamond are those who never visit this kinna websites and read these kinna blogs.

Joe says: Does that mean you aren't going diamond? :)

Agilen says: if i spend 250$ at walmart for ten years,and'i spend 250$ at quixtar for ten yers,

WHO"S GONNA PAY ME MORE ??????????????????????????????????????

Joe says: Well, let's see. You'll get far more product spending $250 at Walmart. $250 in quixtar is less that 100 PV so quixtar will pay you nothing. I guess that makes Walmart a better deal by far. :)

Agieln said: walmart wont even give you a cent but quixtar. . .gives me *1260$* how's that

Joe says: Is that for a month or for a year? If it's for a year, you just made about the average income for a quixtar IBO.

By the way, did you hear that quixtar is changing their name back to Amway?

After I responded to Agilen, I then realized the title of this thread and had a good chuckle.

Anonymous wrote: Joecool
Do you know what I-B-O stands for? We are aware of what others have done. Notice I said "OTHERS". Do I have to bring out statistics of what other business have done. Do you know how many lawsuits WAL-MART had face when it started expanding it's business. Not to mention hiring illegal Aliens to clean the stores. I can bring out more statistics of other business if I want.

Joecool: Yes, and my job is a pyramid. Still doesn't change the fact that quixtar is a product pyramid and the fact that the vast majority of IBOs make nothing or lose money while chasing the dream.

What happened to all the drones?

agilen wrote:

if i spend 250$ at walmart for ten years,
and'i spend 250$ at quixtar for ten yers,

WHO"S GONNA PAY ME MORE ??????????????????????????????????????

Joe says: They would both pay you nothing. It takes more like $300 to earn enough PV to get a quixtar bonus. Also, Walmart doesn't sell you tapes books and seminars to teach you to buy $250 worth of products.

David said: One more thing, the only reason why Quixtar sells so much is because the IBO's buy so much. It's not the general public buying from IBO's, it's IBO's supposedly buying from themselves (I say supposedly buying from themselves because the only one making a profit is the Alticor Corporation).

I can go on and on but I simply do not have the time at this moment. Simply put stay away from Quixtar.

Joe says: Great post!

Owen Said: I was like David. I was gung ho for 1 month or so. I don't care how the company wants to make their money. If they can sell stuff then that is wonderful, good for them! However the promise of getting good deals on products was totally asenyne. How am I supposed to tell a friend that 7 dollars is a good deal for a meal replacement bar?? I am not one of these quixtar haters like some. However I do feel like i need to be able to sleep at night and this system was ridiculous.

I'm not sure what you people are talking about, but quixtar is the best thing that has ever happened to me. With-in the next two years I will be a DIAMOND!!!! So stop with your negitive mind set and get up and do somthing.

Posted by: Shaun on March 23, 2004 01:14 PM

Iagree with you
next two years we'll meet in peter island
My name is Agilen remember it

Joe says: How was Peter Island? :D

Hi All-

I am so disappointed with the poor opinions from the "average" people who so call claim they did Quixtar. I mean doesn't everybody know that the searching internet for credible information is like looking at a bathroom stall wall because anybody can put anything they want to.

I have been a Quixtar IBO in the United Shenoy team in DETROIT and ever since I joined great things have been happening in business and in life.

In fact the relationship with my girlfriend and I have been able to separate our differences and find a greater understanding in each other.

I have been able to manage my money better and improve my skills that helped me climb the ladder in the corporate world.

Gaining the ability to focus better on studies for college while making some extra spending money to put towards something I really wanted to buy which the average person could never afford!

Earn my father's respect as a real hard working individual by sticking something out for a long term commitment without having a bad attitude about how things are going.

Overall- I could write a book and I will very soon! All in all Quixtar has been the best opportunity anyone could offer.

I mean seriously- Circuit City, Disney, Nike, Bass Pro Shops all have legal departments. How and why would executives of these corporations allow their companies to take partnership in a business if it was a scam. They wouldn't and if that doesn't open your eyes...please take a closer look at the following website with some glasses:

www.quixtarfacts.com

www.bbb.com

www.alticor.com

www.amway.com

www.thisbiznow.com

www.ftc.com

You can't go to a few meetings and claim you know everything about it. I mean even if you did and tried to write a report that's spectacular...but why are you wasting time writing a report on it anyway when in 2-5 years of part-time commitment you can replace a professional income?

I suppose if you knew the answer to that question you would have already done it right!

Obviously...Quixtar doesn't work for those who try it. It only works for those who do it!

Especially if you tried it back in the Amway days of the 80's! For goodness sakes my parents were even in Amway in the 1980's. It wasn't a scam! The failure was in result to people who didn't have access to the technology we have today. For instance...back in the 1980's you couldn't have your client or down-line use their credit card so when you ordered products you had to get them in bulk. Forced to be a salesman even if you couldn't sell is no way to keep and any person in a business for long. I don't blame them.

Times have changed and things are much different with the training systems today! In fact we are no longer in the Industrial era, it's the Information age folks. Wake up and smell your coffee and stop working for so long. Even Warren Buffet tried to purchase Quixtar! Doesn't that tell you something? The DeVos & Van Andel Families refused to sell so Mr. Buffet bought "Pampered Chef" instead.

An owner, Jay Van Andel, was the former Chairman for the U.S. Chamber of Commerce. Every business which operates in the U.S. and through the U.S. has to deal with the Chamber of Commerce.

The DeVos family owns the NBA's famous basketball franchise- Orlando Magic. They have since 1991.

Ontop of it all an owner, Dick DeVos who is also former Chairman of Quixtar, was running in the gubernatorial election for the state of Michigan in the year 2006!

That must speak volumes and if not we don't want to get you in the business anyway. Somebody has to mow our lawns, polish our shoes, and dry-clean our clothes, sadly enough!!!

For those of you who tried it and it did not work...it is common to realize that you weren't following the game-plan that you were supposed to put together and I am sorry to hear that for you.

Those of you members...enjoy the best quality service of a lifetime. Other companies customer care is just going downhill and Quixtar actually re-invest profits not only for their business owners but also to keep on the cutting edge of technology so the members/customers/clients can enjoy the best of the best!

And last but not least those of you in the business that are giving it your best effort! Congratulations for making such a life changing decision with Good Luck! I will see you all at the TOP!!!
Anybody offended in reading this and for anything that I have placed here, please hold it against me and not the Quixtar business.

God Bless America, Support the soldiers, testicular and breast cancer!

Dick DeVos for Governor of MICHIGAN in 2008!!!

Sincerely,

Scott Christy
Proud Quixtar IBO
Upline (EDC) - Ganesh Shenoy

PS- Anyone have any questions and serious about joining a wonderful business I will even sponsor you if you would like! Contact me!!!

Scott said: I am so disappointed with the poor opinions from the "average" people who so call claim they did Quixtar. I mean doesn't everybody know that the searching internet for credible information is like looking at a bathroom stall wall because anybody can put anything they want to.

Joe says: So these sites are bathroom walls?
www.quixtarfacts.com

www.bbb.com

www.alticor.com

www.amway.com

www.thisbiznow.com

www.ftc.com

Scott said: I have been a Quixtar IBO in the United Shenoy team in DETROIT and ever since I joined great things have been happening in business and in life.

Joe says: That's awesome. Did you make a profit from quixtar?

Scott said: In fact the relationship with my girlfriend and I have been able to separate our differences and find a greater understanding in each other.

Joe says: That's awesome, have you made a profit from quixtar?

Scott said: I have been able to manage my money better and improve my skills that helped me climb the ladder in the corporate world. Gaining the ability to focus better on studies for college while making some extra spending money to put towards something I really wanted to buy which the average person could never afford!

Joe says: That's great, how's your quixtar business doing?

Scott said: Overall- I could write a book and I will very soon! All in all Quixtar has been the best opportunity anyone could offer.

Joe says: SO how much cash are you netting after paying for tapes books and seminars each month?

Scott said: I mean seriously- Circuit City, Disney, Nike, Bass Pro Shops all have legal departments. How and why would executives of these corporations allow their companies to take partnership in a business if it was a scam.

Joe says: Nobody said quixtar was illegal. Even though you resell products from these stores, keep in mind that they do not endorse quixtar products, and selling merchandise from
these outlets doesn't mean your quixtar business will benefit.

Scott said: Obviously...Quixtar doesn't work for those who try it. It only works for those who do it!

Joe says: And the lottery doesn't work for those who try it, it only works for those who win it!

Scott said: Especially if you tried it back in the Amway days of the 80's! For goodness sakes my parents were even in Amway in the 1980's. It wasn't a scam!

Joe says: Other than direct shipment, what has changed? The vast majority of people who sign up for quixtar still end up making nothing or losing money.

Scott said: Times have changed and things are much different with the training systems today!

Joe says: How do you know if you weren't involved in the "old days"?

Scott said: The DeVos family owns the NBA's famous basketball franchise- Orlando Magic. They have since 1991.

Joe says: And that helps YOUR business how?

Scott said: That must speak volumes and if not we don't want to get you in the business anyway. Somebody has to mow our lawns, polish our shoes, and dry-clean our clothes, sadly enough!!!

Joe says: Either that or those who don't get involved already earn more from our jobs that most IBOs will ever earn from their quixtar business. More likely you will be doing quixtar and mowing lawns and polishing shoes.

Scott said: God Bless America, Support the soldiers, testicular and breast cancer!
Sincerely,

Scott Christy
Proud Quixtar IBO
Upline (EDC) - Ganesh Shenoy

Joe says: I agree, support the US soldiers.

Scott said: PS- Anyone have any questions and serious about joining a wonderful business I will even sponsor you if you would like! Contact me!!!

Joe says: Did you know that online recruiting
is against quixtar rules?

ppl stop hurting, those who are trying something
new in their lifs,succes is like building musscles. you cant become millionaire in one day!
it takes time,energy, efforts, mistakes.
nobody have failed quixtar they have quitted.

like MICHAEL JORDAN says, succes is doing less faults.It is not a one day money making sceam.

Quixtar is no pyramid. you'r job is.
When do you think you can surpasse you boss????
i'll tell ya when you can surpasse your diamond upline, you just have to have a big dream, and a choice that's itt.

So. . .PPl who had a big dreem their are diamond and up, they just consised and presised.

succesefull person thinks differently, their philosophie is different, theis actions are different, they'r life is totally different.

WITH A JOB YOU CAN'T MAKE IT! IN AMERICA.
WEED GROWS LONELY, like harvesting.

if you want to get cold you must hang with ppl who have cold.

same goes in quixtar, you wanna become rich, hang around with diamonds, and belive in your dreems no matter what happens...no matter what...

SORRY IF I REALLY HURTED SOMEONE, I JUST HAVE A BIG DREEM AND THINK WITH A JOB I CANT MAKE IT TRUE

THANK YOU. . .

G said: ppl stop hurting, those who are trying something new in their lifs,succes is like building musscles. you cant become millionaire in one day! it takes time,energy, efforts, mistakes. nobody have failed quixtar they have quitted.

Joe says: How are you being hurt? You searched and found this website and voluntarily came here. If it hurts you, don't visit.

G said: like MICHAEL JORDAN says, succes is doing less faults.It is not a one day money making sceam.

Joe says: Quixtar is like basketball?

G says: Quixtar is no pyramid. you'r job is.

Joe says: Sure many jobs or companies have a hierarchy, but it doesn't take away the fact that quixtar is a pyramid.

G says: When do you think you can surpasse you boss????

Joe says: When do you think you can surpass your upline diamond?

G says: i'll tell ya when you can surpasse your diamond upline, you just have to have a big dream, and a choice that's itt.

Joe says: Sure, you can succeed despite overwhelming odds, why not just "choose" to win the powerball lottery?

G said: So. . .PPl who had a big dreem their are diamond and up, they just consised and presised.

Joe says: Or maybe they're the best "conmen"?

G said: WITH A JOB YOU CAN'T MAKE IT! IN AMERICA. WEED GROWS LONELY, like harvesting.

Joe says: So how can you make it with your current job and the losses you're taking in quixtar?

G says: if you want to get cold you must hang with ppl who have cold.

Joe says: When you attend a quixtar function, there are a few diamonds and thousands of broke IBOs. Same principle huh?

G says: same goes in quixtar, you wanna become rich, hang around with diamonds, and belive in your dreems no matter what happens...no matter what...

Joe says: So how often are you hanging out with
diamonds. Paying to attend a Lakers game doesn't mean I'm hanging around with Kobe Bryant.

SORRY IF I REALLY HURTED SOMEONE, I JUST HAVE A BIG DREEM AND THINK WITH A JOB I CANT MAKE IT TRUE

THANK YOU. . .

Dear Friends

I am in India and Doing Business of AMWAY.www.amwayindia.com Which one is the best co. of world. It deals in 500 product of own brands and Deals 1 million products of other internationsl brand. It deals with Nutrilite www.nutrilite.com.

Quixtar is parent co. of Amway. Nutrilite is world leading brand of Vitamin Mineral & dietry Suppliments. This products are Organic, Plants based & Pure.

If you are +ive and want to fullfill all dream in life Come & join Us
Amway donot makes Diamonds. BWW system(Education System) makes Diamond in 50+ Contries.

Bye
All the best.

Faneendra,+91-9211646677

Faneendra,

Have you made a net profit in your business yet?

Did you know it's against the corporation's rules to recruit online?

It's so funny how some people just don't have anything better to do than re-work words to make questions out of someone else's words. They do this in trial to impose fictitious answers on questions that were never really asked in the first place. This is why the strong will survive.

It's all about a perspective in weakness or strength...i.e.:

-The weak give up on the business or chose to fail as they do not partake in it or just stop trying.

-The strong survive by making it work by any means necessary.

-The weak make up comments or excuses on why they couldn't do it and what functions make it flawed.

-The strong see the flaw as an opportunity and take it to the next level.
----------------------------------

For those of you reading this, are you going to be weak and fall behind or stand tall alone against many weak and tower.

You are bound and determined to get tomatoes thrown at you when you do something that is out of the ordinary. The real question remains...are you going to wipe them off and keep standing tall or fall to the weak lower level?

Take a stand or sit on the floor. This is not monkey business...

I mean are you a (Chimpanzee:fresh out of college) in the (cage:office) at the (zoo:corporate career). Then getting into your prime as a (Lion:Project Mgr.)...

When you go to retire your just an elephant where people just look at you and get bored. You can not go into the jungle because you have been captivated from the wild.

I may be in a cage right now but I definitely know that those days are numbered because I am wild and I got what it takes to get out. No monkey business for me...but if you want to keep re-arrange all these qeustions like a baby kangaroo...than so be it!

Good Luck finding a way out of your cage with that!!! ;)

I am a proud business owner powered by Amway International and it is my honor to be a part of such a great team!

THE YOUNGEST BWW/QUIXTAR HAS EVER SEEN
STRONGEST GROUP OF FASTEST GROWING
MOST EXCITED AND UNITED TEAM

*****SHENOY/KUMAR/DATTA*****

Sincerely,

Scott Christy - Eagle structure & Platinum pin level - 2008
ONE FIRE, IN THE HUNT & CREATIVE PHASE, GROWING & EXCITED!!!
Creating the largest team of Warriors and youngest blooded Champions in the Britt System!!!
Prasad & Srilata's strongest, fastest, most loyal and excited going PLatiNUM growing LEGs!!! !!!
Arun & Malini Hebbur's FIRST Q12!!!
Solidifying KISHOR's Emeraldship !!!
A LARGE key player in Pramod & Pulivi Kumar and Deepak Datta's 2008 DIAMONDSHIP !!! !!! !!!
Making the wind gust Ganesh & Neha Shenoy's Boat...
All the way to RAJ MAHAL in ATLANTA, GA!!!
GOING UP ON STAGE FOR SHENOY FUNCTION '08
This is happening right NOW - DONE DEAL!!!
=
COUNT ON ME BECAUSE I PROMISED...Pramod Kumar, Rajesh Nagpal, Sanjit Siad, Ganesh Shenoy, Chetan Rastogi, Wayne Callander, Nick Soni, Raj Shah, Kanti Gala & BILL BRITT...backstage after BREAK DANCING @ the RICHMOND F.E.D . in 2007!!!
=
Chairman/CEO
Christy International Enterprises
--

WORKS MAGIC!!!AND YOU AIN'T SEEN NOTHING YET!!!

PS - Go Diamond!!!

Scott Christy said: For those of you reading this, are you going to be weak and fall behind or stand tall alone against many weak and tower.

Joe says: Staying in quixtar while losing your shirt paying for tapes and functions is a sign of strength?

Scott Christy said: I am a proud business owner powered by Amway International and it is my honor to be a part of such a great team!

Joe says: It's great that you are proud of what you do. Do you feel it necessary to cut people down just because they don't agree with you about quixtar?

Jim said: Losers always put ppl down

Joe says: Is that why so many IBOs call people losers? Because they themselves are losers?

Yes, you're absolutly right. Not all IBO's are perfect, no one said they would be. People get into the business and some begin to grow while others stay stagnet, it is truly said. These are typically the people that do give companies like Quixtar and Amway a bad name (though unitentionally).

The thing we all need to realize is that no body, and no business for that matter is perfect. So to expect perfection from anyone is absurd.

(Oh, by the way, I wanted to respond to some of you individually, but I realize these post have been made over the course of many years. So the things wouldn't really apply. I as an IBO, with no intention of trying to force anything on any of you want to answer [not defelct as stated above] all your concerns because I do believe that this is the best thing that a normal Joe type person can do if he actually wants to build a business, but doesn't know what to do or how to go about it)

Jimmy,

The issue with quixtar is that the vast majority are not able to generate a profit. The products are priced too high to compete with local grocers and retail giants. Secondly, the training materials (for participating IBOs) cost eats up any profits an IBO might earn, and causes them to suffer losses, yet some uplines will continue to push more and more tools on these IBOs which compounds the problem.

It's not that quixtar cannot work for anyone, but its so much easier to generate income in other ways.

Welcome back Tim! Looking forward to reading your posts again. I was wondering what had happened to your blog. My blog was hacked by (probably) an Amway apologist.

I started a new one:

http://amwayscheme.blogspot.com/

I have joined this business 8 months ago and have been very successful. I started this business because I was on maternity leave and was looking for an opportunity for working from home. I do not see any scam or negativity about this business. It is a straight forward business and yes it is not for everyone. Robert Kiyosaki, famour author of Rich Dad Poor Dad very well explained about 4 Quardrants and he supports network marketing. Myself and my husband are working in our spare time and now all our products are free and we also make around £100-£150 per month minimum. We have 25 ABOs in our business who are well educated and on high profile jobs. They are all building this business in their spare time.
These CDs and books have personally helped us a lot in all walks of life, no university in the world can teach what the BWW systems teaches us. I am really proud to be a part of this business and our business is expanding in several countries. We truly believe in this and I would encourage everyone to understand the concept of the business and follow the system and you will see your dreams coming true.
I once again insist on this point that it is not for everyone but it does require efforts for 4-5 yrs.

MJane, after paying for your Amway education, do you still have a net profit? I bet it is a loss when all expenses are added up.

I am trying to figure out how many items I need to order for every item listed. I have a sheet of items (rows) where for each row there may be an amount needed or not. For each row that has a quantity needed, I need to produce another sheet with ONLY the rows where there is an actual requirement with the quantity needed, item name and state. Here is sample data of the inventory in Worksheet A:

Name State Qty
Apples WA 5
Oranges FL
Car MI 8
Furniture VA 3
Corn IN

Notice that the Qty is empty in many of the rows. Desired output on Worksheet B:

Name State Qty
Apples WA 5
Car MI 8
Furniture VA 3

So the output does not include the empty qty records. I've tried various vlookup formulas and others and am just having a hard time. I'd prefer to do this with a formula rather than macro or such and not using a filter. Any assistance would be gratifying.