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The Kerry "Foreign Leaders Love Me" Quote

This isn't the sort of thing I normally wade into; I'm not a big fan of petty partisan politics. But sometimes it's important to establish whether a particular person is or is not lying when making a particular claim. And sometimes you can learn a lot just by looking at a little thing.

Round One

In this case, it starts with Kerry firing the first shot. Not in defense, but in offense. According to the UK Guardian:

Speaking to supporters in Florida, the Massachusetts senator declared: "I've met foreign leaders who can't go out and say this publicly, but boy they look at you and say, 'You've got to win this, you've got to beat this guy, we need a new policy.' Things like that."

First, let's note this is from The Guardian, an English paper, and a somewhat left-leaning one. I say this because I hear charges that this is all due to some machinations by the Bush administration. But to the contrary, Kerry's statement was offered freely, to supporters, in a why-you-should-elect-me context, in the presence of reporters.

(In case there's any doubt, one can also check this Boston Globe article for the exact same quote. The Globe is the publication which mentioned the original quote, and is not known for having a conservative bias. :-))

Next, let's note that it's crystal clear from the quote that Kerry is saying he has "met" foreign leaders. In fact, he goes further and says: "I have met foreign leaders... they look at you and say..."

One might claim that "met" actually meant "talked with by telephone." Yet most people are very clear on the distinction between "met" and "phoned". Further, Kerry portrays them as looking directly at him, John Kerry, when saying what they said.

Lastly, let's note that Kerry's quote asserted he'd been conversing, in person, with several foreign leaders, plural. "I've met with foreign leaders... boy, they look at you and say..." This is a regular experience he's having!

Round Two

The time to straighten out any misquotes or misunderstandings would be on Kerry's first rebuttal, right? If Kerry had really meant a phone conversation, or even misspoke, that would have been the time to clear it up, no?

So what was his first response?

Mr. Kerry declined yesterday to name any of those leaders, saying private conversations should stay private.

"No leader would obviously share a conversation if I started listing them," the senator told a town-hall meeting in Bethlehem, Pa.

The Massachusetts senator said he would not "play that game" of whether he had had conversations with foreign officials other than heads of state and heads of government.

"The point is that all across the world, America is meeting with a new level of hostility," he said. "I have heard from foreign leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States."

These quotes were picked up by the Associated Press and appeared in Yahoo News, Washington Times, the Macon Daily, and other news outlets. And The Seattle Times reports another response from Kerry:

"I'm not making anything up at all," the Massachusetts senator said. "They're just trying to change the subject."

In a telephone interview, Kerry said "it's no secret" that people in some countries are "deeply divided about our foreign policy. We have lost respect and influence in the world.

"I stand by my statement. The point is not the leaders," Kerry added. "What's important is that this administration's foreign policy is not making us as safe as we can be in the world."

In the first quote, he appears to be saying now that he only "heard from" foreign leaders -- a phrase which could now even include something like receiving a letter or hearing a rumour. In the second, he says he "stands by" his first statement. In both cases, he confirms that he interacted with a variety of foreign leaders, not just one.

Does this sound like a guy who had a phone conversation with a leader of a foreign nation and accidently described it as a "meeting"? Why not clarify it was by phone? Or by letter?

Things get ever weirder, if possible, in...

Round Three

Today, the Los Angeles Times reported that the Globe reporter who first mentioned the quote had gone back over his tape and, lo and behold, he now claims he misquoted Kerry:

The Boston Globe reporter who was covering a Florida fundraiser for Kerry on March 8 wrote in a pool report, which was distributed to the rest of the press corps, that Kerry said he had spoken with "foreign leaders" who had indicated they want him to beat Bush.

But on Monday, the reporter said that, upon review of his tape, he realized that Kerry had in fact said "more leaders" want him to beat Bush.

How interesting! Kerry wasn't talking about "foreign" leaders at all, just "more" leaders that he'd "met with" -- perhaps local ones?

We'll get back to this in a moment. First, let's see how Kerry reacts:

Meanwhile, the Kerry campaign attempted to back away from the original assertion, seizing on a reporter's clarification... the campaign said Monday that the Globe's clarification demonstrates some ambiguity about what Kerry meant. His reference to "more leaders," said Kerry's spokeswoman Stephanie Cutter, "could mean anybody." The media's repeated references to "foreign leaders" allowed critics to suggest he was talking about heads of state. "He was misquoted," said Cutter. "Had he not been misquoted, this wouldn't be a story."

But if Kerry could have meant anybody at all, then, in "Round Two" (above) why did Kerry repeatedly confirm the "foreign" part of the quote? ...

"I stand by my statement. The point is not the leaders. What's important is that this administration's foreign policy is not making us as safe as we can be in the world."

And:

"The point is that all across the world, America is meeting with a new level of hostility," he said. "I have heard from foreign leaders elsewhere in the world who don't appreciate the Bush administration and would love to see a change in the leadership of the United States."

It certainly seems Kerry was under the impression he was referring to "foreign" leaders, doesn't it?

My Analysis

Considering the number and tone of reaffirmations Kerry issued, I find it difficult to believe he was initially confused about whether he'd been meeting with foreign leaders as opposed to local ones. (And if he was confused, what would that say about his competence?)

Second, I find the Globe reporter Patrick Healy's retraction highly suspicious, given that Kerry himself confirmed, reiterated, and even "stood by" the remark as originally quoted, and continued to use it as evidence we should prefer him in matters of foreign relations.

Third, it's clear that the statement was issued in the context of a discussion on foreign relations. According to the Boston Globe, itself, Kerry's first remark had followed "a statement from Milton Ferrell, Kerry's Florida fund-raising chairman, voicing foreign displeasure with the current president. Ferrell said, 'Europeans and elsewhere, they're counting on the American people. They hate Bush, but they know we're going to get rid of him.'"

Why would he follow up a remark like that with evidence that local leaders like him?

So in the end, the only thing I can make of this, logically, is that Kerry made the quote, Kerry confirmed the quote, but also tried to direct attention away from it. Then a reporter realizes he's hurting his guy, and comes up with a different interpretation of the quote which negates the original meaning (shifts from "foreign" to mean any leader of anything), and then the Kerry camp flips and dis-owns the original with: "Oh yeah! That was what he meant!"

As best as I can tell, this looks like one and a half or two lies from Kerry (the original, and then his campaign's disowning of the original), and now, apparently, one more from the reporter himself. Patrick Healy could easily clear up this whole mess by putting his tape in the public domain where we all could hear it. (Though I predict, for the record, that he won't.)

I'm open to other explanations, if anyone has one to suggest.

Why This Matters

Politicians do and say stupid things all the time. It because they're human beings, like all the rest of us. We shouldn't expect a politician to never say something stupid, and we should be generous towards the explanations they give for their gaffes.

But we've got another matter here entirely.

First, if Kerry's original claims are true, it should matter to us which foreign powers are endorsing him and why. If an ally like Tony Blair is dissatisfied, that's one thing, but if Jacques Chirac or North Korea's Kim Il Sung are eager to see his presidency, that's another matter entirely.

Asking about such things is not, as Kerry would have it, a mere political stategem. He himself put the issue out there as being important, and rightly so, as I explain above. But if so, then why are we then to be blamed for wanting more information on this formerly-important claim of foreign endorsements?

Second, even if the original quote was, again, completely factually true, the fact Kerry said it at all reflects poorly on his self-control and planning skills.

If it was true, as Kerry implied, that he had been meeting secretly with foreign leaders, and also, as he also asserted, that "'No leader would obviously share a conversation if I started listing them," then it reflects poorly on his self-control to have put the information "out there" in the first place, in order to impress a rather small group of supporters.

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to realize that when you start claiming foreign endorsements, the American people will legitimately want to know who you've been talking to and what you've been telling them you'll do for them.

And if he's this cavalier with his alleged sensitive negotiations with unnamed foreign governments now, what will he do in yet more important matters?

Third, we should be concerned about these and other apparent position changes from Kerry because they tell us something else about his character which touches on his ability to conduct foreign relations: his credibility and resolve.

I don't mean that I'm worried certain hostile foreign leaders won't "like" him -- with many despots in the world, that's a luxury we can't always afford -- but I mean that when our President says something or makes a promise to a foreign leader, friend or foe, that leader has to have a confidence (or fear) that our President won't be changing his mind later, or will later publicly claim that he meant something else by it.

Again, a man's consistency and word are equally valuable when dealing both friends and foes. And Kerry's record here is far from comforting.

Fourth, Kerry keeps trying to dismiss this ruckus as an evil Bush machination. But it was Kerry who fired the first shot, while campaigning publicly, and it was first printed in the Boston Globe, a newspaper not generally sympathetic to conservative views.

Even if we do merely think of this as a chess game with only two players, Bush and Kerry (and I don't -- that analysis reflects a profound contempt for the intelligence and importance of the American voter), it reflects poorly on a player to blame his opponent for his own uncoerced missteps.

Further, his charges about the current administration's reaction seem spurious and distractionary: I, as a voter, want to know if Kerry's statements are true. Any interest expressed by the current administration doesn't somehow mitigate my legitimate concern, as voter, in this matter.

And yet further still, if a candidate indeed has been trying to do an end-runaround on foreign policy, it seems to me that it is also legitimate for the existing administration -- contrary to what Kerry seems to be saying -- to express an interest in what be going on with that. As the Seattle Times reports:

Vice President Dick Cheney said Americans deserve to know what Kerry has been telling foreign leaders. Cheney noted that at a campaign event Sunday in which a heckler challenged Kerry to produce names, the Democrat declined, saying, "That's none of your business."

"But it is our business when a candidate for president claims the political endorsement of foreign leaders," Cheney said at a congressional fund-raiser in Phoenix. "At the very least, we have a right to know what he is saying to them that makes them so supportive of his candidacy."

Call me a rube, but that seems reasonable.

Fifth, Kerry's original statement and subsequent handling thereof exposes troubling questions about his priorities. Why, in Kerry's mind, should he be president? Because foreign powers like him!

When a man makes a claim like this, it sounds to me as though he thinks we should assemble the leaders of the world together (dictators et al) and let them choose our President and set our policies. Even if we look only to democratic nations, do you honestly think Vincente Fox (much as I like him), Jacques Chirac, Schroeder (who has been caught in a tremendous number of lies and scandals), or Vladimir Putin would select policies for us which would be in their political interest or yours?

Contrast this apparent need for the approval of foreign leaders with Kerry's treatment of the Pennsylvania voter mentioned above: 52-year-old local businessman Cedric Brown demanded Kerry tell him which foreign powers he'd been meeting with. Kerry responded: "That's none of your business!"

Apparently, in Kerry's mind, foreign leaders like him, and their opinions and approval are very important. But when a voter and citizen (however politely or obnoxiously) asks what's happening with that, he is told that it's none of his business.

I find that juxtaposition chilling, regardless how nicely Kerry may have framed the answer. The belief itself is disturbing.

Sixth and last -- and I admit this is a personal observation and speculation here, but hear me out -- it looks to me like this speaks poorly of Kerry's grasp of reality. Since I'm currently persuaded he didn't actually meet with any foreign powers, this also suggests he said what he said because he wanted it to be true; that his assertion -- regarding these foreign leaders staring into his eyes and pleading for his, John Kerry's, help -- proceed from his vanity, not some real experience, or even a cold but dishonest political calculation.

Closing Notes

When I hear a man tell me anyone but Bush would make a better US President from 2005-2008 -- unless he would vote for Nader or a liberatarian -- I hear a man telling me he's sold out to a political party, and will blindly accept and vote for whatever candidate that party puts forth, no matter what their description. There is no point in arguing with such a person: Their mind is made up, and they are telling you that no amount of evidence of this or that will ever alter their views.

While that's certainly a great coup for the Democratic Party -- I mean, that stops them from having to, you know, work to earn our approval -- I fear it serves the needs of our Republic poorly.

I'm not a blind partisan who checked in his alliances before a Democratic candidate was even selected, and I was not among those who voted for Bush in the last election. The Democrats could conceivably have put forth a candidate who might have earned my vote.

But in my opinion John Kerry is rapidly squandering the goodwill I grant all candidates until they prove otherwise.

Barring further evidence: If this is what you want, good luck, America.

You've been warned.


UPDATE: BitsBlog and The Evangelical Outpost argue Kerry's claims, if true, indicate he is commiting a crime, violating the Logan Act.

Comments

i see at the end the writer for this piece tried to give reason why this was important. but its ridiculous, its almost as bad as the enquirer. he said something that wasnt the exact truth. well what is? oh right two plus two right, well im online reading an entire page dedicated to a couple of sentences from a guy said something out of an earnest attitude caused by the haste that he feels to change our country. did i mention i dont vote...i probably shouldnt mention that but this is exactly why.
democracy today and maybe has always been adolescent. im going to regret writing this but this is a joke. i dont back kerry because i dont know him and bush obviously lacks tact and subtleties which make me wonder if hes self aware at all, im not saying hes a primate but i am saying is that i dont know what he would do if you put a mirror in front of him, but im betting the mirror would be broken after a few minutes of frustration and confusion. being that they are the most influential men in the country once in office shouldnt we go further in determining which one should lead. we should have a live debate and hook them up to a lie detector as america watches there expressions. we can watch how they handle lying or being caught in a lie and whether or not they fess up and how they do it, maybe only then will we see character, only then will we see intentions. our leader doesnt have to be perfect but he should be expected to have near perfect intentions.
its so easy to make articles like this, its easy to pose a question and never have an answer, another reason why listening to political banter is so taxing for me, if anyone thinks they can do better than why arent they trying. people assume that we have some super hero team who works closely with the president but they are just humans getting information from other humans, other flawed humans, well educated maybe but inevitably flawed. all that we know as outsiders to american politics is heresay.
we have to vote on something that will last a few years, we have to vote on someone who has the ability to commit mass murder without consequence and who can change lives dramatically with just a signature, we have to do this and more based off of heresay. based off of information received from talk shows who have no show unless their is turbulence in politics. im bored. sure i have some ideas on how to achieve a just world, but im obviously crazy so ill keep those between me and my neighbors dog sam.

Posted by: noone on May 26, 2004 02:51 AM

Noone,

Regarding any hostility, more than forgiven. Always welcome reasonabled contributions. And I think you make a few good points, and welcome your reasoned tone.

But I find this juxtapositions interesting:

we have to vote on something that will last a few years, we have to vote on someone who has the ability to commit mass murder without consequence and who can change lives dramatically with just a signature...

Versus:

were you bored? why did you write this? this is petty? this is like two people arguing over whos better and more talented brittany or christina...

Well, which is it? Is choosing and debating who, and what what qualities we want for our President of great importance, or is it of no more consequence than teen pop idols?

Clearly, I tend towards the former.


he said something that wasnt the exact truth. well what is? oh right two plus two right

Do you normally go this far to avoid saying the word "lie"? Or is there some special reason you're so hesitant to attribute it to Kerry? I mean, there's a difference between being mistaken and outright fabrication.


well im online reading an entire page dedicated to a couple of sentences from a guy said something out of an earnest attitude...

First, how do you know Kerry's attitude was earnest? How can we be sure he wasn't just saying this as a cynical to make people afraid and run to him? Me, I only know his words. Where did we get these mind-reading powers?

Conversely, I keep hearing people attribute bad intentions to George Bush. Really? Again, where did we get these mind-reading skills? What if the situation was really the other way around, that Bush was generally earnest and that Kerry was manipulative? Isn't that also possible?

Since I only know people's words, not their true motives or inner thoughts, I try to pay attention to those.

You also seem to assume that because an utterance is short that it has no importance. So I'd trust you're upset the various "Fourteen words" pages from the left, too? Or many the volumes written about other important short quotes from history?

Me, I tend to think length and importance are not always positively correlated. The Gettysburg address was one of the shortest political speeches ever given to that time.

This wasn't a toss-off. It wasn't an anomaly. It wasn't a misprint. Kerry himself brought up the same topic over and over. And it wasn't some short mistake: He says he stands by every word of it.

It's either important or it isn't. If it's important enough for Kerry to use in campaigning, and to stand by it, I feel it's reasonable for me to comment upon it.

On the other hand, if Kerry's purported endorsement by foreign leaders is trite and trivial, then why was he trivializing politics by repeatedly bringing it up during his campaign?

Me, I tend to think it's important to understand which foreign leaders might influence a Presidential candidate, which areas they might influence him, which opinions he would value, how much influence a threat of disapproval might have. I want to know if he's more beholden to the electorate or to foreign powers.

I'm not sure how I'm supposed to do that if I'm not allowed to consider his own words on the topic.

Last, contrary to your assertion, the above is not hearsay. The quotes are his own words, and those of his supporters, taken in full context from major, often sympathetic publications, with links provided to each so you can validate what I'm saying for yourself.

Posted by: Tim on May 26, 2004 12:24 PM

I'm going to try to make this brief, since it need not be long. You say, Tim, that you're not a fan of petty partisian politics (nice alliteration, by the way). Fair enough. In this article, you thoroughly analyzed the entire fiasco behind this troublesome Kerry quote, with particular emphasis on whether he is telling the truth or lying. This, too, is fair enough. And appropriate. However, and this is just out of curiousity, have you spent any time analyzing the various Bush quotes that are, quite likely, gross distortions and blatant misrepresentations of the truth?

"Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." [Bush Remarks, Cincinnati OH, 10/7/02]

"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." [Bush, State of the Union, 1/28/03]

"In an interview with Polish television on May 30, Mr. Bush cited the trailers [found in postwar Iraq] as evidence that the United States had 'found the weapons of mass destruction' it was looking for." [New York Times, 6/26/03]

"Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term." [Bush, State of the Union, 2002]

"Tax relief is central to my plan to encourage economic growth, and we can proceed with tax relief without fear of budget deficits, even if the economy softens," [Bush Remarks at Western Michigan University, 3/27/01]


If you haven't, then my point is merely this: while you may claim to not be a fan of petty partisian politics, you are invariably participating in them with this pro-Bush article. Why pro-Bush? Because when you say you're warning the voting public against John Kerry - unless you're accounting for Nader or a liberatarian, which I doubt you are - you are, due to the very partisian nature of politics, pointing the voting public towards George W. Bush. Petty partisian politics, indeed...and yes, you've definetly waded into it.

Posted by: Daft Pudding on May 27, 2004 02:00 AM

Daft,

Yes, I definitely have. And so it is.

You raise some interesting questions. Some of these I've looked into in the past. Some I haven't but might at some point, just because you're requested it.

This is not my day job, and I don't have time to write, at this moment, an equally well-researched piece on each topic you raise (though I suspect it'd be a lot of fun), but I'll try to provide short answers to each question you raise.


"Facing clear evidence of peril, we cannot wait for the final proof, the smoking gun that could come in the form of a mushroom cloud." [Bush Remarks, Cincinnati OH, 10/7/02]

Bush clearly seemed to think Iraq was a threat.

But, having lived through the 90s, I recall so did Gore, Clinton, Albright, early-Scott-Ritter, Blair and UK intelligence, French intelligence, and even some more obscure European countries I've looked into.

This wasn't any odd thing Bush came up with. I remember Clinton also telling us all that Saddam was a clear threat to world peace, and I even remember Congress voting in huge majority on an official policy of Iraqi regime change. When the Cole was bombed, after Bush took office, prominent Democrats demanded that Bush attack Iraq in retaliation!

The problem I have regarding being convinced otherwise is that I was (a) alive and (b) paying attention when these things occured. I don't have some stange sort of memory that allows the revisionists around me to convince me it was Bush who came up with the idea Saddam was a threat.

(I sometimes suspect that if Bush had done nothing about Iraq, some of the same faces would now be faulting him for not carrying forward Clinton's initial resolution to pursue Iraqi regime change.)

If it ultimately turns out Bush was wrong about WMD (and it looks to me that there are lots of interesting bits of evidence to the contrary), then I'm not sure where the charge of "lie" applies.

If it turns out there was zero WMD -- and we're not precisely sure of that NOW, with three truckloads of VX coming out of Syria, Sarin shells being dropped on our guys, and weapons inspectors reporting novel reference strains of bioweapons -- then how was he the one person on the whole planet who knew Saddam didn't have any, when everbody else was, and had been, saying otherwise for years? I find the idea frankly implausible.

I mean, after all, the charge is that he lied -- not that he was merely wrong.

You see, what we're discussing above, with Kerry, appears to be a series of lies. Even if I assume he was telling the truth in the original statement -- that he really did meet with several foreign leaders, etc. -- then we're still stuck concluding his people lied when they said he meant "local", and that the Boston Globe reporter lied when he said the same, and that, all questions of ethics aside, Kerry is at least stupid enough to blab about secret meetings about which he doesn't want people to know the details.

No matter how charitiably I try, I can't make this look good for Kerry. But I don't even have to try very hard at all to think that perhaps Bush, if he was wrong about WMD, was simply ... wrong. Like everybody else was on this issue, around the world, even years before he took office.


"The British government has learned that Saddam Hussein recently sought significant quantities of uranium from Africa." [Bush, State of the Union, 1/28/03]

I looked into this at the time, and have since then. Blair stood by the statement in question. If it was false, then the greater culpability would have been Blair's.

If you are truly convinced such an attempt never happened, then it seems to me you should be even angier at Blair on this particular point than Bush. If not, your stance would seem inconsistent to me.

Given that there's yellow cake (the material in question from Niger) all over Iraq, and even showing up in Iraqi scap metal, I don't find the idea implausable.


"In an interview with Polish television on May 30, Mr. Bush cited the trailers [found in postwar Iraq] as evidence that the United States had 'found the weapons of mass destruction' it was looking for." [New York Times, 6/26/03]

The British and State Department concluded that the trailers were used for weather balloons. Defense claimed, and still does to this day, that they were intended for bioweapons. Iraqi scientists had already predicted the existence of such trailers, and stated they were used for WMD.

So there are two stories out there.

I can see both sides. Perhaps that's wrong of me. I don't fault people for thinking they were for weather balloons. Nor do I fault those who to this day don't buy that explanation.

Given that, I'm not sure how I'm supposed to be angry at the President for stating an opinon which was later disputed, and still remains unresolved.

My own analysis is that, at least from what I've learned so far, the weather balloon idea doesn't seem to make sense at all.

First, why have trailers to ferment helium when it can be purchased cheaply on the open market? (As anyone with kids party balloons can tell you.)

Second, from what I was able to determine (feel free to correct me if you have better evidence!) the British group which sold them the other weather-balloon-related items didn't sell them the trailers! So apparently they're not a standard kind of creature. So this is really odd -- why design and build your own trailers for producing helium?

That's gonna be wickedly expensive helium in the end!

Third, from what I can find, I get the strong impression the trailers were unused. Is so, were now we're designing and building expensive custom trailers to ferment otherwise-cheap helium for balloons which we've never launched!

Perhaps I'm wrong about this. I've only done the best I can. But, like I said, I can see both sides of the debate. In such a position, I'm not in a state of livid apoplexy because Bush early on drew a conclusion that the data I was able to find seems to still support. Nor would I be disturbed if he, or you, felt otherwise.

There is such a thing as a reasonable disagreement.


"Our budget will run a deficit that will be small and short-term." [Bush, State of the Union, 2002]

Certainly the deficit isn't small. How fast it can be paid off depends strongly on how the economy grows. Everyone was shocked at what happened in the 90s under the dot-com boom -- nobody saw that payoff coming, and GAO error helped hide the coming suplus from our easy-spending politicians.

On this one, perhaps Bush could have known better. I don't think so. He's a supply-sider, and recessions typically last for about two years. Given that, plus a tax cut, such a person could reasonably think a growing economy later in 2002 would have offset much of the predicted expenditures.

As it is, the economy is now finally kicking into gear, about a year and a half late. And from what I've heard, tax receipt numbers are indeed up.

But again, even if Bush is totally wrong about how long it will take to pay off, as best as I can see, it looks like he was simply ... wrong. Unless you're going to tell me he had some unique insight which told him, for sure, the recession would have lasted until early this year.

You seem to be countering by citing issues where Bush appears to have been wrong about things. Of course he is. Most of us, and politicians in particular -- not just Bush -- are often wrong about lots of things.

And wrong is certainly not good, but there's a significant difference between being wrong and provable, deliberate fabrications.


"Tax relief is central to my plan to encourage economic growth, and we can proceed with tax relief without fear of budget deficits, even if the economy softens," [Bush Remarks at Western Michigan University, 3/27/01]

Oh good heavens man, I was taking you seriously until this one. Are you out of your mind? This is a quote from before 9/11!

I can't believe you'd use such a crass, apparently insincere argument.

Bush predicted we should be fine "even if the economy softens" -- not if we suddenly discovered that terrorists tried to decapitate our government by taking out the White House and Congress (two planes were headed toward DC, those were their most likely targets), the worlds largest building, located in NYC's financial district and containing many stock traders, and various other sites on the West Coast (which was narrowly averted)!

And what happened, even just economically -- forget the increased expenditures for security and Afghanistan and Iraq -- was far more than the economic "softening" to which Bush refers -- the economy completely tanked in the wake of the devastation!

Second, note this was simply a prediction. You seem to imply that making a wrong prediction about the future (was it even wrong? we'll never know!) is equivalent to, or perhaps worse than, a person who knowingly fabricates data outright whenever it suits their needs.

Imagine we were going golfing and I said, "We'll be fine and have fun, even if we get some light rain." The next day a tornado stikes, damages the course and clubhouse, and our golf outing is cancelled.

Apparently, according to the way you seem to think, I would be some kind of unethical liar. On par with, or perhaps even worse than the guy who claims he's really a secret CIA operative and also wants to sell me some valuable property in rural New Mexico.

Look, I'm sorry. I really try, but that seems horribly insincere. Not because it's about Bush. But it's just not a "thinking technique" I'd embrace in general. If I wouldn't hold you to such a criteria, then why should I expect so much more from some politician somewhere?

Clearly you and I operate from some different kinds of rules and principles. I'm not sure we can reach an agreement given that profound difference in how we think about things and evaluate them.

But I thank you for your thoughtful comments, regardless, and wish you well.

- Tim

Posted by: Tim on May 27, 2004 05:19 AM

[i] Bush quotes that are, quite likely, gross distortions and blatant misrepresentations of the truth? [/i]

Of course your posting theses quotes as lies is an act of disinformation and distortion. All of your quotes have nothing seemingly disingenious or inherently misleading lying or evil intentions. Only Bush's reference to a mushroom cloud is arguably too vague too dramatic and possibly exageratted diction. Do you think we are safe from a nuclear attack? Well I'm sure I can find a Kerry quote saying that Bush hasn't done anything to secure the country and protect us from the greater threat of nuclear weapons.

[i]If you haven't, then my point is merely this: while you may claim to not be a fan of petty partisian politics, you are invariably participating in them with this pro-Bush article. Why pro-Bush? Because when you say you're warning the voting public against John Kerry - unless you're accounting for Nader or a liberatarian, which I doubt you are - you are, due to the very partisian nature of politics, pointing the voting public towards George W. Bush. Petty partisian politics, indeed...and yes, you've definetly waded into it. [/i]

This article is in no way Pro-Bush other than being not Pro-Kerry in the conclusion and hypothesis. I do believe Kerry has yet to accept the Democratic nomination although he announced his intentions to accept. Of course we are all being partisan plausibly playing politics plowing through rhetoric and investigating the facts is not partisan in any form. If journalist endeavours were all inherently politically polarized then the great media would all be Pro-Kerry except FOX News and the Daily Show with John Stewart would be bouncing off the walls.

TELL ME THIS! My Liberal friends... Why is it that the only campaigning we can see is that against Bush. I have yet to see any reason why Kerry has earned my vote. Should I go along with all the liberals in town and vote for KERRY simply because I disapprove of BUSH? Don't you think that could get us into alot more trouble. Why should I even vote if I can't get my way with either? The opinion of this college student is that the Democratic National Party has so many problems and so little real support that they launched a huge campaign against BUSH and because they had no real candidate for president. With no clear choice for the democratic candidate they needed a successful campaign against BUSH. They've been rather successful in getting college students and others to nearly BLINDLY join the fray and vote for KERRY. Many are blind to Kerry's words or plans and only seek to be a part of the ANTIBUSH brigade. That is what petty partisan politics is about, and the article above is not petty in its attempt to use facts and opinions to to describe a reason that Kerry's record and words should be questioned.

Posted by: Colin on May 29, 2004 02:09 PM

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