Quixtar has nothing to do with people who decide to run their own business powered by Quixtar unethically.

You're right! That doesn't make sense.

So, by "nothing to do with", you apparently mean: pay money to, supply product to, lend their brand name to, profit from, create the kickbacks for, ignore gross ethical misbehavior of, and in general carry on a sustained, mutually beneficial business relationship with?

I can see how Enron's relationship with Quixtar fits this perfectly. Great example!

People that have lying friends isn't my problem, Quixtar doesn't tell people to go out there and lie.

For those just joining this discussion, one thing my anonymous enemy here is saying is true: Quixtar doesn't directly, expliticly dictate what the "business" companies around Quixtar do.

But Quixtar is complicit in their behavior, and benefits greatly from it. Quixtar's founders are on record as having said this kind of behavior is unethical, and promised, at one point, to reign it in. They never did so.

Sometimes, those of us who talk about Quixtar will use the company's name as a shorthand for "the Quixtar plan" -- the matrix- or pyramid-shaped technique (depends who you ask) by which Quixtar products are typically marketed.

I try to make this distinction clear when the topic comes up, and apologize for any confusion should I fail at any point.

Quixtar is certainly not a choirboy of the corporate world -- since it knows about this and profits from this -- but it only supplies the products and certain payments, not the rest of the mechanism.

Thus it is only complicit in such unethical behaviors. Sadly, that's still makes them an unethical corporation, from what I understand of Christian ethics.

It’s not the only thing available but it is legal and a lot of good people teach how to build it ethically.

You're welcomed to describe how you would sell it ethically, and use cite true examples from your own life.

Sadly, even if it could be sold ethically, the problem becomes that in doing so, one will still support a lot of unethical behavior...

As clarified in most posts on this board, and her, it is "the plan" which is really the problem. But Quixtar itself would be nothing, it seems to me, without "the plan"...

So I have a hard time seeing behaviors which conform to the plan as being some kind of fluke, as you seem to imply we should view them as being.

Its unfortunate so many people keep the company of liars...

So are you rebuking me for allowing you to post any longer to this blog, given your track record of deceptive behavior?

If so, you may have a point.

Oh, I think you mean that as a slam towards my IBO-friend. Tecnically, she didn't lie to me -- she never promised she'd speak to me alone. Instead, she simply deceived me -- which is to create a false impression using true statements.

Remember that old story about the snake in the Garden of Eden? How the snake (who represents the devil) deceived Eve with completely true statements: The fruit was good to eat; she would gain knowledge.

Deception works like that: One uses true statements and flawed reasoning to imply an untruth.

I notice you use the exact same technique frequently, as have many different IBOs here. You should consider who you are serving, then, in operating that way.

... but that isn't the fault of Quixtar.

Au contraire! That's a bit like saying: "Yes, I know my friend frequently drives drunk with the car I loan him, but it isn't my fault!"

Yes, it is: Take your car back and keep it, if you know he abuses it. It may not be illegal to lend your car to an alcoholic who drives, but it's definitely immoral.

As I said before, Quixtar's founders are on record as having said they know about such behaivor and consider it unethical. As such, they could certainly institute policies which forbid anyone caught using any unethical techniques from selling their product the wrong way.

(In fact, most product distributers have such policies, which points out the gaping difference...)

Thus, their failure to do so makes them complicit in this behavior, even if they don't carry it out directly themselves.

Nice try.

"Technician, architect, bail bondsman, baker, bartender, cab driver, cleaner, cook"

Come on Tim, don't do this to yourself, I can't let you post lies.

Really! Then point out a place I've knowingly lied.

(Hah: this new, apparently moral tone, coming from a man who has posted under many different names, repeatedly slandered me (and does even still!), and in general relied upon deception at each turn!)

The problem with this statement is that all these professions listed are the ones exchanging business cards with IBOs talking about part-time income.

I see. I maintain these jobs, in my view, are likely to make more than $2.20 an hour, and thus I am a liar because... some of them exchange business cards with someone who is an IBO?

Fascinating argument. As if somehow the mere act of giving an IBO a business card suddenly proves Quixtar will pay more than you're earning now, or would be worth more than working overtime or adding a second job of any other kind.

Your wrong Tim. First of all the majority of people don't start to make more than their current income, they start because they want a good part time income...

How can I be wrong about an argument I've never made? I don't say that people expect to make more per hour (or even total) through Quixtar, when they start, than they will in their current job.

I've only pointed out that just about any other opportunity, as a second job, will probably provide more per hour. Again, you flee in terror from the main point.

I also find it interesting that you are now making the categorical assertion that over 50% of Quixtar IBOs join with the express intent of only making part time money, and not to ultimately replace their day job!

I say that's interesting because quitting one's day job is often mentioned in Quixtar related circles. Funny how most people aren't supposed to be motivated by this idea, given it's prominence as a sales technique!

Perhaps you'd like to prove your assertion here?

I would say 40hrs a month at $88 isn't why people start, but I made about $6 my first month.

I believe you on this tangential point. And I find it incredibly sad. If you drove even twenty miles to do anything Quixtar-related, you lost money at that rate, even if you hadn't considered another minimum wage job as an alternative.

And you probably didn't notice that this was a pittance compared to the extra costs you'd spent on Quixtar product.

You know -- that "profit" doesn't come from nowhere. It comes by making the product you buy, on average, a bit more expensive than normal. Considered as a whole, the IBOs are just paying themselves a bit back each time they pay Quixtar much more.

You get distracted by this analogy, but this is the same way a casino works: A lot goes in, a little comes back. The casino relies upon the randomness of the payback to disguise the net loss. Quixtar instead uses a matrix- or pyramid-structure (depending on which IBO you ask) to disguise the same loss.

You made $6. Less than two hours at McDonald's. Or returning eight carts at the airport. And this encouraged you.

Very sad.

But you're certainly not alone. That's also sad.

So the average person makes a lot more than me. And because it is deceptive to use nothing but the averages...

Since when is citing averages deceptive? We cite averages all the time: The average American gained 6 pounds since 1991; your chance of winning this lottery are X; the average price of stock XYZ was $62.70 at the closing bell.

None of these people takes time to also show the worst-case scenario, to tell a human drama about the average they just sited.

Apparently, in your odd little world, all those citations are being done by deeply unethical, immoral people.

No, in reality, people know what an average is. They understand that it means they may do better or worse; they use averages (and medians) as a guide to gauge opportunities or dangers against each other, or guess how an "average" participant might fare.

But I'd bet you probably knew that already, and simply chose to pretend not know it order to make this argument.

I guess the average person makes 14 times more per month than me.

That sounds like the kind of logic you'd use, yes.

Considering your apparently vested in interest in this, I'd guess you're probably on the "predator" end of this particular food chain.

Not too bad from the looks of last months bonus.

Yes, of course: If a person who might earn $88 could keep their total Quixtar-related expenses under $88, this would be more profitable than not working any extra hours at all.

But most people have choices as to how to spend that 'extra' time; they have other options besides "do no extra work" and "sell Quixtar"... though the typical sales pitch seems designed to make them forget that fact, or imagine Quixtar to be more profitable than it really is.

"If I had the opportunity to join, and help profit, an organization where even half the people were behaving in a manifestly corrupt manner, I would avoid doing so -- any honest contributions would still profit, help, and enable the others who behaved deceptively."

First prove half?

I'm not necessarily talking about Quixtar or one of the many organization around it which market its products. I'm starting to explain a general principle, as indicated by the general term "an organization". It's the first half of an illustration where I point out that by we can't do good by bringing more profit to a system which largely does harm.

But I'd guess you knew that, too. :-)

In the case of Quixtar IBOs I suspect that a lot of the lowest-level IBOs don't think they're doing anything harmful, and don't undertand all the details. What exact percentage of IBOs (or actual employees of Quixtar itself, for that matter) understand the true impact of their is unknown to me.

But the founder's admission puts him in the situation of knowing and admitting the bad apples (mentioned further down), and thus any honest contributions still help such people.

As does your own admitted knowledge, present actions, and probable future behavior.

So you don't mind when you are categorized as a Christian with a child-molesting priest?

No, don't mind at all that word "Christian" applies to both of us. It also applies to Mother Theresa and the people who ran the crusades.

I used an example where two people were in the same organization, and one's actions profited the others.

But a Christian doesn't become a Christian by joining the same organization as another Christian: such a label is a statement of alleged convictions.

Second, unlike the example given, my actions don't profit such a hypothetical priest. If I pray to God, or confess my desire to obey (or my failures to do so!) or even tithe to my local church (which is not Catholic) the priest gains no financial reward at all.

Of course, this is obvious to even the simplest reader. The only reason I have to explain it to you is not that you are stupid, or that you somehow forgot the distinction, but simply because your desire to use any argument, no matter how inept, will cause you to argue things even a child knows to be untrue.

Deceptively talking each week, every day, that they are talking to God and teaching others 'the way'.

Whether a person sins or not does not (a) mean they can never make a true statement, nor (b) prevent God from hearing their prayers.

See the media uses the few bad apples in the church just as I believe this manner of site does to people who get products from Quixtar.

This site doesn't base it's arguments against selling Quixtar around a few bad apples. But it does warn against specific bad behaviors and arguments we encounter, such as those you exhibit and use.

Cardinal Law got into trouble because he knew what the priests were doing. He himself worked to shield and benefit them. As such, he was complicit in their behavior.

Many good Roman Catholics in his organization voiced their desire to get him out... and indeed, he has now been removed from that position of power. As such, they are not complicit in such behaivor.

There's nothing wrong with exposing bad apples. Nor in pointing out that an organization which continually harbors, and profits from them, is behaving in an unethical manner.

But you're engaged in a straw man, continually, as you mispresent my charges against Quixtar and "the plan" which spreads it. To use your anology, you'd be a person who was benfiting from the priest's bad behavior, or Cardinal Law's attempt to cover it.

In fact, your attempts to get me to delete this forum would be part of an attempt to keep misbehavior from being exposed.

I would challenge you to go and defend your belief on a site that categorizes you with the child molesting priest...

You clearly have no idea about my personal actions: I'm frequently in contact with, and have publicly debated such people, who have made such accusations.

But, for the Nth time, your analogy is twisted: All Christians do not profit a corrupt priest somewhere by holding the same convictions. To the contrary, they work to expose and remove him, when given the chance.

So I expect you're working to expose and remove the kind of IBOs who behave as you do?

Right! You're not even willing to expose your own first name!

... you see to them everyone in the church must allow, more over, be complicit to this behavior.

First, what the priests did was not known to the average parishioner in their diocese, as it would have been to me in the example I gave.

Second, as pointed out, these priests were removed by the organization when they were publicly exposed as being unethical. Third, the Cardinals were also removed when their complicity was publicly exposed.

If Quixtar hasn't taken similar steps to deal with it's "bad apples" demonstrates it is even less ethical, in this regard, than the Catholic church has been!

And that's failing to surmount a fairly low bar!

Thanks for bringing up this productive comparison!

So sue the people that are handling business unethically or sue Quixtar.

I've refuted this allegation numerous times for you.

I've warned you about this habit of reposting such allegations and ignoring my previous responses to you.

You can't throw me in the same group as these people you are against because they aren’t doing what is taught...

First, I think you're deceptive because you've acted deceptively at each turn possible, from the first opportunity you had, where you pretended to be a group of different people having a conversation which slandered me.

Second, I challenge you to show me that deceptive IBOs, of whom I encounter so many, are doing anything different than they are instructed to.

A neutral observer would notice (a) each IBO is instructed to toe the line and "follow the plan" in how they sell Quixtar, and (b) that many IBOs (most, in my experience) will use deception to market Quixtar and "the plan".

Thus, the neutral observer could be excused for thinking deception is probably part of the plan. In fact, it's the obvious conclusion I contend any normal person would draw.

It isn't right but I can't stop them from doing it that way...

Heck, you don't even stop yourself from behaving that way.

The point:

No, not the point. A tangential parenthetical remark you manifest a near-psychotic fixation with...

How is your friend doing, and has her approach changed? If she hasn't changed, she hasn't grown. If she is growing, you will find she has changed her approach.

Oh. Is your behavior a model for such growth? I don't see you confessing it as wrong, so I can only conclude you still stand by such deceptive techniques.

I have no idea how she's altered her approach.

She hasn't quit Quixtar yet, even though she's got nearly a hundred downlines and yet is still working a crappy job she really hates, and she wasn't interested in hear what I'd uncovered, so she may not be that fast a learner.

On the other hand, her mentor was more deceptive, so perhaps her Quixtar-selling business has taught her a few more types of deception.

So I don't know whether she's improved her approach or made it worse. The evolution (or lack thereof) of her exact sales techniques is not something we discuss in detail each time we pass and say hi.

I mean how much is Quixtar really profiting from your friend, you mentioned all the profit they get from deceptive people so prove it...

As she's switched all of her "purchasing power" into Quixtar's hands, and, last I asked, was meeting the required PV, I'd guess they're doing quite well from her, not to mention the nearly one hundred people she's signed up.

Quixtar did over a billion in sales in North America last year; from the sounds of it your friend is about half right?

When did I make or imply such a statement?

I see you are completely shameless in what statements you will put in your opponent's mouth.

You 'deceptively' mis-quoted the snake in the garden by the way. False witness. The snake continued to tell Eve God didn't want her to eat the fruit because it would allow her to gain the wisdom of God. (Paraphrase) The snake lied huge.

I never quoted the snake. That makes it hard to "mis-quote" the snake.

What the snake said was true:

"For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

And indeed, she ate, and her eyes were opened. They realized they what "evil" was, realized they had done it, realized they were naked, realized they were in trouble, and hid from God.

The word "know", used here, is a Hebrew term which connotes experience. And indeed, having now experienced the difference between good and evil is exactly what Eve, and Adam, went through after eating the fruit.

The snake's words were deceptive, not false.

Dude, Quixtar is just a portal that allows people to earn credit for directing people's buying through referrals.

Hey, I can describe anything with the word "just" before it. Does that mean the underlying implication is true?

Saddam Hussein was a just a guy who ran a country. You are just a person commenting on my blog. Murder is just another way people die. Bill Gates is just another programmer.

I am not born-again in Quixtar.

Really? From your behavior here, you seem to be one of the most Quixtar-obsessed indviduals I've ever encountered.

But you won't be able to pawn your false witness off on me as good evidence.

If I've lied, demonstrate it. On the other hand you've slandered me yet again by calling me a liar and not providing any substantiating evidence.

As I've said before, there's more to proving someone a liar than simply calling them one.

I would watch where you tried for your own sake, not that I care what you choose to do or say...

This from a man who seems positively obsessed with what I do and say...

Adding and subtracting from scripture for your own gain, are you Mormon?

I see no point in answering your question, since you don't answer mine, nor acknowledge the answers I give you. And how am I allegedly profiting, again?

First we are debating Quixtar and how I believe that a few people make choices to present 'the plan' in a deceptive way always get used as the example.

Actually, if you examine this article closely, you'll see your own behavior are the topic here; that is what we are debating. Or, more correctly, what I'm highlighting and you're working hard to ignore.

Just as the media tries to use child molesting priests or right wing fanatics as the 'believers' example. I would guess that your friend isn't doing that well anyway.

I've already told you: She's a local celebrity in her organization. She's signed up nearly a hundred.

Of course, even at that level, she's not making a lot of cash. So is she a "success" because she's gone so far with Quixtar, or a 'loser" because she's gotten so little back?

Again, you are still fixated on this minor, parenthetical remark.

Ethical example:
Guy could be a "Technician, architect, bail bondsman, baker, bartender, cab driver, cleaner, cook". More like "doctor, lawyer, business owner", but that doesn't help your case. I guess you didn't lie you just once again are showing you know very little about what you are talking about, that’s all.

I claim these professions are likely to give a better return than being a Quixtar IBO.

So, again, why is the mere act of making such a statement unethical? You haven't shown it's wrong or factually incorrect. Simply citing it again isn't a way of disproving it.

Second, even if you were correct in asserting I'm wrong about that, your conclusion still doesn't hold: If I inadvertantly repeat something I don't realize is untrue -- as you assert I'm doing -- I'm not necessarily behaving unethically.

But if so, where's the apology?

An unethical person can be found everywhere, in Quixtar in Church in the pope box in the white house...

You're deeply into yet another straw man fallacy: I've never said Quixtar is unethical merely because it has some unethical people selling it. I've explained the concept of "complicity" before; you continue to pretend I haven't.

Every person in America that listens to music is Eminem, or every Christian is a child-molesting priest, or every person using Quixtar as a servicing corp. must be as deceptive as possible to profit...

Wow! You've lost it, dude.

A person who becomes a Christian doesn't become a child-molesting priest, as you're claiming here. By anology, I'd have to have claimed all IBOs, even would-be honest ones, are unethical. But no such claim was made.

So you're just putting words into my mouth here.

Regarding Eminem: Merely listening to his music doesn't encourage whatever negative behavior he might exhibit. So you're using an argument which neglects the "profit" part of the definition of complicity I gave.

If you changed it, and said buying Enimen's music profited him, and made you somewhat complicit in his behavior (if you knew about it) then I'd agree that was a fair representation of my views.

But, the way you've said it, you're again just misrepresenting my views because you can't cope with the actual ones stated.

Finally: Have I said each IBO must be "as deceptive as possible to profit"? No, again, no such argument has been made. I've never argued IBOs are all deceptive at all: indeed, I think some aren't.

You're not such a one, though.

That was, what: three cases of misrepresenting my argument (apparently deliberately, unless you're a complete moron, which you're not) in one sentence.

Impressive!

Isn't true and it doesn't fly with me. If you continue to read your Bible I guess you don't mind about your leadership and their child molesting...

Let's see: You think the priest and I share the same leadership because we share the same convictions.

Yet, thinking as you do, you refer to this hypothetical "leadership" as being mine, but apparently not one you also share!

So I guess you've come out and amitted you're not a Christian. Well, that's a relief!

Tim, I really don’t believe that about you but can you understand how the sites that focus on a few bad apples as the example for everyone is just like church example.

If you actually examine this site -- not that I think you have any intellectually honest interest in doing so -- you'd discover you're one of the only "bad apples" being focused upon.

You'd also discover that, contrary to what you're saying, the principal argument against Quixtar is that the bad actions of a few, but rather the nature of the business itself, regardless of the motivations of this or that IBO.

But, as a previous commentor added, I'm clearly kicking a dead horse here.

The fact that you can't even address this argument, which you promised you'd demolish, admits the complete intellectual bankruptcy of your position.

The fact that you continue to avoid the point, and take (deceptive!) actions which promote this business admits the complete moral bankruptcy of your position.

I know because they both used as slander against “good people’s” beliefs at the sake of a few people’s experiences.

Look, I've warned you against reposting the same argument repeatedly and pretending I haven't responded to it.

I've already pointed out to you, more than I care to count, that the ethical problems with Quixtar transcend problem with unethical IBO behavior similar to your many deceptions here.

If you could see the group you willing signing up for by being one of the Quixtar Blog guys you probably wouldn’t like it.

I think you are saying that some unethical people might have posted on a blog that links to this one.

If you feel this is a big moral threat to the general well being, you're welcomed demostrate the dangers posed by the blog you cite. (Elsewhere.)

Even if so, I'm not sure how far that will get you because no link from that blog was ever a matter of my decision or will, contrary to what you (again) attempt to impute of me.

I'll put you down for merely being wrong on this one.

I understand when people have bad experiences from IBOs but Quixtar didn’t meet with them one-on-one to teach them to be deceptive with their friends and family.

Okay, sorry, you lose. I've warned you repeatedly about making the same arguments over and over and pretending I haven't answered you on the matter.

In this case, I've addressed the "Quixtar didn't tell them to do it!" agument more than once. You're pretending, again, that I've never (a) agreed Quixtar didn't tell them, one-to-one, to do it, and (b) alleged Quixtar's actual complicity.

Those people made unethical business choices, so put up a negative site about those people.

And here you again repeat the canard that I'm protesting specific people (other than you).

Quixtar has 3 lawsuits against them, however Walmart has 10,000 against them.

And here you again invoke the "Lack of lawsuits proves Quixtar is good" fallacy.

Not to mention that you continued, above, to (again) call me a liar without showing why anything I've said was a lie, again misrepresented several of my statements, in addition to the various lies and slanders about me you've posted previously.

Sorry, *bzzzt* you lose.

Note that you'd been warned repeatedly.

You clearly have no self-control in this area.

And, I mentioned previously, I get the sneaking suspicion I'm enabling behavior which, for you, is negative and self-defeating, for reasons discussed previously.

In closing, I'd like to leave you with a few final thoughts, for you, my would-be anonymous enemy. The rest of you can leave now. I'm not writing this your benefit, and I'd rather not have to write this here, but this guy is afraid of even revealing a working email address...

I believe you're posting here because you have a perceived financial interest in supressing unflattering opinions of Quixtar and it's related businesses. But I believe you're also doing so because of an internal struggle you're fighting.

All hypothetical arguments about other IBOs aside, you know darned well that you, and many other IBOs -- probably most -- make money by hiding information you know the person would want to know, such as the $88/month figure you now demonstrate you know.

So consider, when you sign that next person up: You know information that might change their mind if they knew it. Are you going to sign them up anyway, without telling them? Can you possibly justify that to youself as ethical?

Will you continue to use subtle errors, lies and deception to shill for these organizations, as you have here?

You know what you're doing is wrong, and you apparently also know my core arguments are right: That's why you avoid confronting them and argue all the tangents you can think of. You admit as much in doing so, otherwise you would attack them directly.

That's why you introduce odd ideas like all legal businesses are ethical, or that I think Quixtar is unethical because one person did something wrong, or that I have a deep fear of success, or failure, or hate my boss, or imply people "looking into" Quixtar proves it will make them money. You know these arguments, these distractions, are a complete crock.

But you repeat them over and over not because you'll convince me, or anyone reading this -- who will similarly notice you're missing the point -- but because you need to keep telling yourself.

All this appears to be an elaborate ritual to keep assuring you that you're doing the right thing in this business.

Yet you know you're not.

I don't know if you believe in God. Certainly, if you do, you think he's going to let you get away with what you're doing to people.

But it's a bad bet to play God for a sucker:

To the pure you show yourself pure,
but to the crooked you show yourself shrewd.
(Psalm 18:26)

He thwarts the plans of the crafty,
so that their hands achieve no success.
He catches the wise in their craftiness,
and the schemes of the wily are swept away.
Darkness comes upon them in the daytime;
at noon they grope as in the night.
(Job 5:12-14)

I'm not saying I'm perfect, or don't have issues of my own -- I do. But you're actively working to hurt people, and you know it; you're actively engaged in deception, and you know that also full well.

If you do believe in God, look around: Do you think the force which put all of that in place is going to be something you'll want to tangle with? Do you think that which fashioned your own mind will be impressed with your shallow deceptions and feints?

You're living still. You're breathing. There's still time to change.

Obedience to Jesus offers you something you can't get elsewhere. Trust me, man, it's good. It's waaay richer (and more interesting) than whatever paltry sum you'll get from trying to fleece his sheep through Quixtar.

I don't mean to come off sounding religious but, as I said, I'm one of those people who are simply convinced of what was written.

It's for you, too:

"I tell you the truth, the man who does not enter the sheep pen by the gate, but climbs in by some other way, is a thief and a robber. The man who enters by the gate is the shepherd of his sheep. The watchman opens the gate for him, and the sheep listen to his voice. He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out. When he has brought out all his own, he goes on ahead of them, and his sheep follow him because they know his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger's voice." Jesus used this figure of speech, but they did not understand what he was telling them.

Therefore Jesus said again, "I tell you the truth, I am the gate for the sheep. All who ever came before me were thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not listen to them. I am the gate; whoever enters through me will be kept safe. He will come in and go out, and find pasture. The thief comes only to steal and kill and destroy; I have come that they may have life, and have it to the full.

"I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. The hired hand is not the shepherd who owns the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

"I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me -- just as the Father knows me and I know the Father -- and I lay down my life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd. The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life -- only to take it up again. No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down and authority to take it up again. This command I received from my Father."

Quixtar has 3 Lawsuits, Ha!!! I have 3 feet long penis. Two can play can’t they?

What is Quixtar? It's not a sole entity, it is something like:

Quixtar + Motivational organization (BWW, TOD etc) + Distributors + Alticor (parent company)

And here are lawsuits:

http://amquix.info/quixtar_lawsuits.html
http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/action/bww.html
http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/09/spanos_v_quixtar_inc_et_al.php

There are too many my friend,

Btw If I did many crimes, got too many lawsuits, upto the level that I had to pay 25 M to Canadian Government, change my name to Tim, and says Tim is 1 day old and he don't have any lawsuits against him, would I be right?

That’s what Quixtar has done. Changed it's name and IBOs are preaching it big time.

Use the brain God Gave you
Don't let the self righteous enslave you

G, u da man, its as simple as that.

This is the dumbest discussion I have come across in a long time. As monetioned in other postings Quixtar cannot control the actions of every IBO. I am a current IBO and I run my business with as much integrity and ethically as possible. I don't use God to recruit people and tell them that God wants them to be in Quixtar or anything remotely like that.

I simply offer people a chance to make extra money and honestly if they do some work and put some effort into it they WILL see not only a change for the good in their lives but also profit if they stick with it long enough. I would bet that a good 3/4 of the people who complain about this business is because they were expecting some get rich quick sheme and I tell the people straight out that it will take hard work and time.

I have not even reached the Platinum level yet in the business and I am making a profit after subtracting tools and my products for the entire month and I have been involved with the business for about 6 months now.

As far as I am concerned everyone that is complaining about Quixtar is simply not dedicated enough to stick with it long enough to see a profit, and then you come on the Internet and blast everyone you can think of involved....

Gary:

This is the dumbest discussion I have come across in a long time.

And so, I assume, you'll improve it with comments much more intelligent and correct than the others?

As monetioned in other postings Quixtar cannot control the actions of every IBO.

Ever see a television ad for Quixtar? Ever see Quixtar advertised on a billboard? Ever get a junkmail flyer about Quixar? No? Why not? Oh, right -- that's because an IBO could lose their "franchise" for violating that rule. And -- amazingly enough -- such a threat "controls" the actions of their IBOs. Isn't that astounding?

How is it that you won't find one McDonald's branch bilking their customers when the others act responsibly? Oh yes, that's right -- there are conduct rules, and they can lose their franchise for breaking them.

IBOs act unethically simply because Quixtar doesn't care if they do so. It would be a simple matter to write down some rules of conduct, set up a complaint line, and yank a few IBO "franchises". Everyone else would fall into line rather quickly.

Oh sorry, I forgot. That's entirely impossible. Why? Apparently because you said so. Of course.

So why is a "dumb" person such as myself having to explain something this simple to you who is, apparently, so much smarter?

I am a current IBO and I run my business with as much integrity and ethically as possible.

Oh really?

Dear Anonymous Coward,

Is that the best you can do? Simply telling me I suck and I'm an inferior person to you and a loser? Ooooh, how original! Never heard that one from an IBO before. Did you read that directly off the response sheet, or did you have to phone your upline IBO so they could tell you what to say?

Well, if I'm so clueless as to what Quixtar is about -- and you want to "rub it in", then why not refute even one of my allegations? C'mon, Coward, where's the data? Show me the few who get rich aren't doing so at the expense of so many others!

What: Chicken? No supporting data? Hmmmm???

Personal insults are the last resort of a desparate person who knows he's wrong and has no meaningful arguments. Go ahead, insult me some more... you make it completely clear to the readers how truly intellectually bankrupt your position is.

Why don't you rely on the government to pay for you!

I'm a businessman, you silly man. One of my main criticisms against Quixtar is that "the plan" isn't even a real business, but most IBOs know so little about business that they can't see the difference.

My other point is that $115 a month -- the average IBO's ROI -- is laughably low. For your average person, McDonald's will earn much more money. Of course, your uplines flatter you by tell you you're all "above average" -- but my experience suggests, sadly, that Quixtar actually mainly appeals to who know almost nothing about real business.

Arrogance, sadly, is no substitute for knowledge.

And our children will experience the world for what God made it to be, Paradise.

Oh my dear IBO, you are so brainwashed :) How many tapes you are listening per day? :)

Well when I was 25 I used to say almost what you said, now I'm 27 and out :)

Tim answered you very well. Think, please. You post were quite entertaining. Spend little time thinking as well. Think how much you are spending and how much you are making. Think is your whole organization making money or losing money? Think about pyramid mathematics. Think that few shows like dateline and all the "Financial security" will go to lawyers defending your booty against running illegal pyramid charges. Just think!

Know about Diamonds and Emerald quitting Quixtar? And walking away from it?

http://www.formerdiamond.com
http://www.merchantsofdeceptions.com

And this is a good link about pyramid vs. job

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2003/10/smacked_with_the_stupid_stick.php

Buddy, this business is a scam! Can close any time, no matter what amount of tapes you listen. If just one blog, that you browsed yourself, annoyed you that much, how about more media coverage like dateline? Think. Bigger Quixtar grow, more media coverage it will get. It's inevitable! What will happen then?

Also, can you please tell me a single person who signed up in Quixtar and went diamond? Not Amway, Quixtar? No, no one did. It’s been 5 years since the launch of Quixtar. It was 2 - 5 years plan. Where are the diamonds?

Seriously man, with the ridiculously expensive products, expenses like tool which should be free in a good MLM, and all the time IBOs spend OUTSIDE the home in a home based business, and with very little rewards, how much ppl you can retain?

And please, oh please study franchises. That’s a good one. When you sign up on a franchise, you are shown solid numbers that what is expected outcome from that particular franchise in that area. You know that 80-90% income of diamonds come from tapes, seminars and books? Well do you have any written contract that you'll get X amount of money if you move this much tool? Like you have one for products, 300 PV => 9% bonus etc.?

What type of a business is this that in which you are working for riches that you have absolutely no guarantee of getting? Other than a promise and a handshake.

Many many ppl have been screwed over by their upline when their upline refused to give them tool money while selling tools to their organization. You'll become slave to any senior diamond for the rest of your life. Hey I can change my job!

And what will happen if you don't get tool money? You can't sue! You have signed BSMAA. You have given up that right.

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/01/tools_optional.php

Only thing you could so is go for arbitration!

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2004/11/jody_victor_caught_on_tape.php

Which is a joke according to IBOA prominent member Jody Victor!

Are these the riches you are so worked up about where majority of your income is completely on the whim of a king pin and you could be screwed over any time without even the right to sue? Or even the right to sign up your own downline to any other MLM for 2 years! Quixtar BSMAA rule # 6.5.

Well I heard Joe Land was booted off Quixtar. Poor guy was just doing what Robert Kayoski told, diversifying his income! A diamond, booted by Quixtar within 24 hours! And he is not the only one. Crown ambassadors have been booted too! Search amquix.info

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/01/the_unraveling.php

Well Joe Land was no good guy any ways. Just one of other blood sucker, parasite of society, Merchant of deception, A "Diamond"

Anyone who posts here, don't waste your time. Obviously our ultra-intellegent Tim will always have a counter to anything you could ever post. Let him enjoy his life of mediocrity and close-mindedness...

Thanks Gary! Thanks for such a sound advice.

So tell me, you are making money yet? or u 2 are having an average life?

Obviously our ultra-intellegent Tim will always have a counter to anything you could ever post.

Well, Gary, if that's wrong, then simply point out the error in those answers -- rather than slurring anyone who makes you feel uncomfortable by holding and giving evidence in favor of what you clearly feel is the "wrong" point of view to have.

Or, if you can't think of a reason that the contrary evidence you're hearing is wrong, you could always consider changing your mind. Just a thought.

Yeah, I hate those people who answer intelligently too! They think they're so smart just because they know facts. Like those have ever meant anything!

I was in Quixtar and it tore my marriage apart. My husband cared more about the business than he cared about his own family. My little girl and myself. He spent all our money on the products and didnt even have insurance for the family. When i attended the siminars they taught for the wives to be submissive to the husband. Iam now going through a divorce and i might lose my little girl because he has a better job than me and he now has tempoary custody of my little girl. Please if you want to contace me and interview me call me @:254)214-0413

Yeah I would say quixtar IBOs are deceptive.

Do you come up front and say you are recruiting
for the quixtar opportunity or do you say (fill in blank) enterprises?

Do you disclose the poor success rate of IBOs?

Do you up front disclose the cost of the "system"?

If not you are deceptive aren't you?

Where do they get their supposed "5 to 15 hours a week?" If you're supposed to to talk to at least "6" people to get this to work? The dude that talked to me wasted at least 6 hours in one week on me alone trying to convince me that this scheme works. And you have to attend those worthless meetings where they try to convince you that these greedy little scum of the earth individuals actually think of other things than money. Life is more than money and things

You got it right Alan. You're pretty much full time if you are "serious" about quixtar.

Some one is attempting to recruit me right now...I'm doing my homework and see nothing but trouble...Gonna run like hell. Just don't beleive in it. The web site below did a lot to help me reach my conclusion.
http://www.amquix.info/amway.html

For those that do beleive in the system and choose to dedicate themselves, good luck and god speed I wish you the greatest success in your endeavors.

Right on Bongo!

I hope more people do their research so even if they choose quixtar, they will know what it's all about and make an informed decision.

If you wanna have fun, go to the Myspace.com and look on the business forums. There are always IBOs trying to recruit online in that manner. It's fun to ask them questions.

I think someone told me it's against company rules to recruit IBOs online. Anyone able to confirm it?

I think someone told me it's against company rules to recruit IBOs online. Anyone able to confirm it?

I think someone told me it's against company rules to recruit IBOs online. Anyone able to confirm it?

Bottom line, if you talk down about IBO's, you need to get YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT. It takes 1 yr to 3 yrs to make good money, depending on how hard you work. It is your decision. IBO's are the most friendly people you will ever meet! Everyone who is not willing to work at this business, trust me AS AN IBO, I AM VERY HAPPY I DO NOT HAVE TO WORK WITH YOU! The QI's and business meetings that everyone talks bad about, that is the point, either to get people to love it or hate it. If you hate it, WE WANT YOU GONE.
Thank you.

IBO's are the most friendly people you will ever meet!

Of course! Like:

I AM VERY HAPPY I DO NOT HAVE TO WORK WITH YOU!

WE WANT YOU GONE.

"IBO's are the most friendly people you will ever meet!"

Translated to laymen's terms: We are the most friendly people you will ever meet as long as you are positive about quixtar and do not question upline, and you stay plugged into the "system".

Might I add at least most critics have some facts posted. Seems like the quixtar supporters defense is " you didn't work hard enough", or "you're just bitter".

At least make an argument with some substance.

Might I add at least most critics have some facts posted. Seems like the quixtar supporters defense is " you didn't work hard enough", or "you're just bitter".

At least make an argument with some substance.

Emily said "I was in Quixtar and it tore my marriage apart. My husband cared more about the business than he cared about his own family. My little girl and myself. He spent all our money on the products and didnt even have insurance for the family. When i attended the siminars they taught for the wives to be submissive to the husband. Iam now going through a divorce and i might lose my little girl because he has a better job than me and he now has tempoary custody of my little girl. Please if you want to contace me and interview me call me @:254)214-0413"

I hate IBOs. People stop me at walmart because I look like an Indian only so they could recruit me. They are very insulting when I say no. Trust me I have had several couple come up to me for this. They are definately not the friendliest people. IBOs is a scam. Please stay away. I have a family member who is trying so hard to recruit people so he can make money. Hes begging me to join and buy goods on Quixtar. Ofcourse I have to pay more. what a scaM.

Whatever you choose to do with your life, you will work for no matter what it is. The real question you should ask yourself it what do I want and what am I willing to do to get it.
(That is legal, ethical and moral).
Why are you so worried about people having a successful Quixtar business. For the record I have a nephew that is in this business (EMERALD)and doing very well. He raises his family and his marriage is great. No one controls his schedule...
What's yours like - who is planning your life?
Oh and by the way if your marriage failed it might be because you are negative and not willing to grow and change. "Life is about growing and changing". DEAL with it IT's a CHOICE.
Their is a 60% divorce rate in America why do you suppose that is. Maybe we all should be a little more submissive to our spouse. After all it means yeilding, being humble, or obedient. Unless your married to a jerk it doesn't have to be a bad thing. TV, magazines and other types of media portray it as bad, don't believe it. If you want to have a good marriage you will submit at times. Read some good books on relationships and learn to communicate. Don't put blame on a business that only has products and services you choose to purchase. Take responsibility for yourself so that if you remarry it will be successful.
The people that have a bad attitudes on this blog should read some good books. Their are plenty of people who have wrote good books to help you grow in your life. But your are still going to have to pay and work for it.
If Quixtar is not for you fine. Then do something else, after all this is America a country founded on entrepreneurship. The Indians weren't hiring when the Pilgrams arrived. It is the freedoms and choices this country is built on that let you write on this big bathroom wall.
Doesn't mean you should...
Check out the book "World wide winers"... READ it do yourself some good and stop causing trouble.
I am proud of my nephew and what he has accomplished and who knows maybe some day I to will have a HUGH Quixtar business. Oh and his success is only in QUIXTAR...

Dora: Whatever you choose to do with your life, you will work for no matter what it is.

Joe: Yes, quixtar included. If you think you'll be sitting on abeach watching your quixtar money rolling in, you better think again.

Dora: who is planning your life?

Joe: In quixtar, I guess that would be your upline and for thr rest of us, we plan our own lives.

Dora: I am proud of my nephew and what he has accomplished and who knows maybe some day I to will have a HUGH Quixtar business. Oh and his success is only in QUIXTAR.

Joe: Emerald income is what? $70K? Many people make more than that from their jobs.

Why are you so worried about people having a successful Quixtar business. For the record I have a nephew that is in this business (EMERALD)and doing very well.

Dora, did you even read any of the counter-arguments here? I'm not worried about someone's success, I'm concerned about many people being encouraged to lose.

Did you know the average active Quixtar IBO makes only $115 a month? BEFORE expenses? And considering the value of minmum wage, even that's a loss.

So even if some hypothetical person "did well" (verrry unlikely, given the stats available out there), it was done by causing a lot of other people to lose money. Which is sad and unethical.

It's the "expenses" that are the problem for most IBOs. Prospects are shown a 6-4-2 plan which is a "shortcut" to easy street. They sign up and the the prospect is told you need the "system" to succeed.

And then the prospect is probably told - you're not going to let that little detail stop you from fulfilling your dreams right? A few months later, this prospect has probably spent over a thousand dollars on tools and has a used up name list.

Joe: it's not about sitting on the beach and watching the money roll by.
What's your goal to sit here on the computer and complain about how unfair life is?
As far as who is planning my life - that would be ME. Upline people (as to what you call them) They are only people trying to help others have success they are certainly not cry babies online that feels someone has licked the red off their candy. Nothing is free and you do have work for it (sorry that's life)
As far as the SYSTEM - you included probably need it. People need to grow and be better - the only thing that will make you different in 5 years from now will be the books you've read and the people you associate with.
The System is optional and so success. Everyone has to make that choice.

You want to know where you can get the truth online....CHECK OUT ibofacts.com
They are not hiding anything...Enjoy learning.

Dora Said "The System is optional and so success"

Joe says: Sure Dora, that's what they say after you quit. When you're being prospected, you're not told it quite that way. I was told "Ron Puryear and Greg Duncan said tools are the key to your success, but if you think you know better, then do it your own way. It's a defacto requirement.

I'm not here to complain, my goal is to get prospects to see a balanced picture of the business and the tools.

BTW Dora, are you making money AFTER your expenses are subtracted? I bet you are losing
money and if you are making money, then your downline is losing money. It's inevitable.

So tell me Joe is someone making money off this little blog you have put together? I bet so---That's business!
When you buy a book - do ya think someone is making money? Well let's get real about success and business - everything you or I do someone is making money that's a good thing. Again this is America - thank God we have the choice.
The BUSINESS system will help you with success because ALL of us (You and I) included need to learn and continue learning.
Optional means you have a choice no one makes people use the system offered that is up to them. All the negative stuff we all face daily - it is nice to know that some people are out making a difference in a POSITIVE light. Again thank God for good folks.
Upline people might make mistakes saying things wrong or incorrect - they are human.
Answer to your question am I making money after expenses-YES and surprise so is the rest of my business. Thanks for asking.
THAT IS INEVITABLE.
Success by the way comes in many different forms and opinions - it is not always MONEY.

Dora: Upline people might make mistakes saying things wrong or incorrect - they are human.
Answer to your question am I making money after expenses-YES and surprise so is the rest of my business. Thanks for asking.
THAT IS INEVITABLE.
Success by the way comes in many different forms and opinions - it is not always MONEY.

Joe: Dora, first off, I make nothing for running my blog. I do it as a hobby.

Secondly, upline pins once claimed they MADE NO PROFIT selling tools. When the lie was exposed, they then admitted that money was made from tools and that some IBOs can also get a cut - yet why is there no written compensation plsn for the tools? Why the secrecy?

Dora: Upline people might make mistakes saying things wrong or incorrect - they are human.

Joe: Then why do they expect IBOs to be responsible fortheir mistakes? Upline gets credit when someone succeeds, but any failures are personal responsibility of the IBO.