hi
i love this system
bye
dinesh

hi
i think this sustem will give u a life of
significance..........
so follow it now------

bye

DINESH

hello
i am student of engineering .
i am not doing any mlm business but thruly
i sopport this sistem.

bye
DINESH SOLANKI

Dinesh, why don't you learn how to speak
English and give a more relevant comment. Quixtar has all the signs of a pyramid scheme, one of them indeed being a large initial investment. Any organization who takes in people and claims them as their own without any sort of documentation is almost cultish and deserves investigation.

It's taking action in UK too!

http://www.pyramidschemealert.org/PSAMain/action/UKaction.html

u got it noz, it's a very old another get rich quick all American scheme, hence the name am way, American way. 1959 - 2004.

BWW sells tapes, books and seminars to ppl trying to make money off Amway. At ridiculously higher prices. Majority of ppl end up losing time and money and are labeled as losers when the leave

Anyone who knows anything about business knows both the system and the Business Works! once investigated, they will find this is a business whith integrity! Look it up in the Federal Trade Commision Reports!

Dont be confused use resources like the Federal Trade Commission and the bbb they both find this business to to reputable. they did 4 billion last year, they are completely debt free, they are based in over 70 contries and yes they have a great system and over 15,000 products. Toothpaste through Natural Gass(Columbia Gas)mci, coca cola, ect you have to work at this business 2-5 years and not give up that's where a lot of people don't make it they don't utilize the system. People give up too easily just look at our divorse rate in america 65%
Steve

Steve, system works? Works for whom might be more accurate.

It works for the top few. Yes it does. But is it working for the majority?

According to Amway press release:

Anyone who knows anything about business knows both the system and the Business Works!
Ha! Why not all wall street doing it them? No investment and life time freedom.

Fact is, many naive non-business savvy people end up doing it. I hardly saw any business person doing it. Right now it is focusing towards the students and immigrants! Sad, bad and sick.

I came upon this searching about the business I just joined. I don't want to argue others opinion, but I do want to give my own.
I am a part of the business and I see it like this:
This opportunity is similar to those who can afford to own (let's say) a Best Buy store. Obviously whoever started Best buy (owner) is making the profits from all the stores started after his. He sales supplies and forms to the other owners at his price and in the end profits.
This model is exactly the same. The difference is, it allows anyone interested to start with a tiny store, or lets say a Best Buy shack. As their members and clients grow the store grows, thus resulting in profit. This business also teaches us to invest in ourselves rather than investing in Walmart or any other stores. Though they have to buy supplies to keep the busines running they are legally making money from their efforts.
It's kept in a closed circuit because if anyone is allowed to shop or sign up without a link it breaks the business plan.
Lastly to say, find someone and attend a few open meetings, which are free to others, and create your own opinion. Don't take advice from someone without a plan for sucess, or somone who is not where you want to be in life.

For those who disagree with this business realize that while you are buying products from Walmart and the other stores, their owners are making money and only helping us by providing goods. THe owners of Walmart are the top 3-7 on the forbes list and I bet they charge all their stores for products (that smiley face sign) and others that are purchased weekly.
This business provides goods, teaches prosperity, builds character and provides a $ incentive for purchasing. The incentive also comes from name brand stores other than those sponsored, which are called partner stores (Bass Pro shops, circuit city, 1-800contacts, etc.

Lastly to say, find someone and attend a few open meetings, which are free to others, and create your own opinion. Don't take advice from someone without a plan for sucess, or somone who is not where you want to be in life.
Well I have done this business for a year, attend more meetings than you, listened more tapes than you and have attended more seminars than you. Can I tell some thing about BWW?

Plan for success: Yes. Hard work! Getting retired early is not a right dream. Some one somewhere would be working his ass off to keep you retired.

If some one has a financial interest in you, of course he'll tell you what is his benefit, not always yours. My mortgage broker despite my financial position will say take mortgage from me. my upline will say not quit. My employer will say work more and store owner will say shop more. Point: Being a mentor of your customer is a bad business. In BWW, all IBOs are customers and diamonds etc. are selling them tapes. How diamonds could be the mentor of their own customers? They are boubd to give them mentor ship to buy more tapes for their own sake? I don't think they are qualified to give me advice.

You people are all so crazy. If you didn't like it fine, so do something else, but don't blab your jaw off and damper others dreams. Someone mentioned there were no products of consumption??? Well I buy my shampoo, my soap, my cleaner, my food, my make-up, my paper, my printer ink, some clothes, a filing cabinet, the lists goes on and on and on, and you know what? I consume all of those products. You aren't required to buy books and tapes, is it recommended yes, but not required. If you do buy them, try reading them or listening to them, you might learn something about yourself. Once you are done with your tools, you aren't suppose to go off and sell them to someone else, its called a personal library. People fail in this business because they don't have a large enough dream, they can't handle delayed gradification, and are so bull-headed that they can't listen to other successful people's advice. Many of you also say that you are making money off your downline. This is only true in part, yes you make money when they perform, but that money is not taken out of their pocket, it is from the corportation. The corporation doesn't advertise, so this money is given in bonuses instead. Some of you said you have gone to meetings and functions, well you obviously didn't listen with an open mind. Also, downline can make more money than there upline. My upline is not fully committed to building the business and that is fine, but I make money and he doesn't. Do the people above him make money yes, but if I worked harder then them, and grew my business larger than theirs then they wouldn't be making more money than me. This business is common sense, something some of you must not have. It is not a pyramid because we are not taking money from the people below us, the money is from the corporation. A protion of your check is not deducted to go to your upline. Ok, I need to stop reading this site, it is enough to make me sick.

You people are all so crazy. If you didn't like it fine, so do something else, but don't blab your jaw off and damper others dreams.

What an amazingly weak foundation those "dreams" must have: simply discussing them is enough to "damper" them.

It's almost like these people fear freedom of information.

Nah.

Once you are done with your tools, you aren't suppose to go off and sell them to someone else, its called a personal library.

Shouldn't *I* be the one to decide which books or tapes I find valuable enough to re-read? Otherwise, if I keep even the ones I'll never re-read, what happens? Will my library give off "library rays" which keep me pumped up?

Gosh, it almost sounds like they're afraid the tapes shouldn't be re-sold because it might cut into future sales profits.

Nah.

People fail in this business because they don't have a large enough dream, they can't handle delayed gradification, and are so bull-headed that they can't listen to other successful people's advice.

No, my friend, people fail in this business because that's how pyramid/matrix schemes are set up. The only way to get a winner is to produce a lot of losers.

Each person pays a little to their upline. It takes many, many downlines to make a single upline even close to profitable. Each of those downlines must now sign up many, many more to recoup their losses. But there aren't sufficient prospects out there to do it (and population doesn't grow fast enough), so most of them will lose money.

Their feelings, or how hard they hope Hope HOPE it comes true, has absolutely nothing to do with this mathematical certainty.

You're being played for a sucker.

This is only true in part, yes you make money when they perform, but that money is not taken out of their pocket, it is from the corportation.

No, friend, it comes from markups in the price of products sold to their downlines -- which ultimately comes from the fact that downlines have to keep their day jobs while they lose money in this "system".

That money doesn't come from space, my friend. Think: What does the company do? Oh yeah, it sells product. So the "extra" comes from where? Oh yeah, a markup in the price of the product.

The corporation doesn't advertise, so this money is given in bonuses instead.

Wrong again. The reason the corporation doesn't advertise is because they make their money by having IBOs buy their products while they prospect and prospect, and wait and wait and wait until they day they either give up or start to break even.

The longer you can draw this out, the more product you will move. Word of mouth prospecting ensures it takes very long for this to occur.

That's also the purpose of all the social functions and cult-like features: it's to bond you emotionally to the organization and keep you in the loop, purchasing product, as long as possible.

Thats a great to be a Britt Trainer

I was just aproached by one of the guys already in the bww line. he told me that it's a great opportunity to make money and he mentioned e-commerce and a lot of crap. i kept asking what it was about and how it works but he evaded my questions and said that in the seminar i will find out. it sounded too good to be true. i guess it is. i thought that it would be one of those get-rich quick schemes because he slipped something about giving some money to someone above and that sounded weird. also, if i was thinking if he is actually making as much money as he said he was, why would he want someone to get in and take a piece of his pie. i mean, if i'm making money off something, i'll try to make sure that i'll recieve as much profit out of it as i can. i realized that for him to make money he needs to recruit people. he also mentioned something about paying 20 dollars and that's what struck me. i try to be open minded but this bww business does sound like a pyramid scam. i mean, new people pay and portion of money you make goes upside; also, you need to recruit new people in order to profit yourself so that they pay and portion of the money goes to you. aren't those the characteristics of a pyramid scam?

in the end, if you want to make money, get an education. i'm doing so and i believe that with hard work, education is the only thing that can actually make your hopes and dreams come true.

i kept asking what it was about and how it works but he evaded my questions and said that in the seminar i will find out. it sounded too good to be true. i guess it is.

In response to the guy who wrote "in the end, if you want to make money, get an education. i'm doing so and i believe that with hard work, education is the only thing that can actually make your hopes and dreams come true."

The books and the tapes ARE EDUCATION along with the learning lab of going out and "making the presentation" AKA showing the (marketing) plan. The tapes are not all "hype" ...some of the tapes are people's life stories....oral autobiographies. Probably not 100% accurate...(is any autobiography?) but enriching to hear nevertheless...."Humanities 101". Some tapes are life skills instructions....basic stuff like the importance of clipping your nose hairs and make fixing your teeth a high priority and how to buy a suit and tie a tie. If you didn't learn that at home...where are you gonna learn it? Some of the tapes teach basic financial principles...like live within your means...save something every month....hope for the best but prepare for the worst. The process of actually "showing the marketing plan" improves a persons communication skills, their ability to think on their feet...their confidence in speaking before groups. Learning to deal with objections...like most of the stuff posted at this website .... helps a person develop the ability to stand alone on what they believe.

What a great side benefit.

A word about the products....

the skin care stuff....actually helps your skin to LOOK better! ..it is very competitive in the market place both in quality and in price.

The nutritional supplements...all organically grown...actually...make you HEALTHIER...have more energy....and less prone to infections...and include some great weight loss/maintenance products...there's even a website (free) that gives good sound advise on healthy menus and an exercise program.

and the soap...well what can I say...it's good laundry soap...and I like how it smells...

The stuff marketed through the system...it's not "cactus juice"

And you know the partner store people...it's not a LOT of volume...because it's only 5 - 10% pv....BUT THE PRICE IS THE SAME AS IF YOU WENT TO THE WEBSITES DIRECT...you know...places like Barnes and Noble and Office Max....same price...but through the quixtar website you get tagged with the little IBO number on the way to "their" website, therefore get to add up your PV/BV for that little rebate at the end of the month.

Even without counting customers or downline volume my rebate (the stuff I buy and use) is $16 - $150 a month.

IF YOU ARE LOSING MONEY IN THE QUIXTAR BUSINESS YOU ARE DOING SOMETHING "WRONG" AND YOU NEED TO CHECK UPLINE....IT'S DESIGNED TO BE A SELF-FUNDING BUSINESS AND IF YOU DO IT "RIGHT" THAT'S THE WAY IT WORKS.

It actually costs $47 to join Quixtar for the first year, then $30 to renew each year thereafter. The $140 I saw quoted above must include some books or tapes or something. That's the MAJOR problem with Quixtar. Too many people lie about it to make an extra buck. Please see my post under the blog that is headed "meeting with a Quixtar drone" or words to thsat effect.
Kevin

Tim, usually I wuold agree with you about the political blogs on this site, but I have to say you are dead wrong about Quixtar. I started in Novemember and I am making money. I am a full-time college student so I obviously do not have a ton of time to spend on this. I have not produced a single "loser" to earn my money. I have successfully sold the products on the Quixtar website that perform better an are cheaper than name brand store products. These products also have a 6-month satisfaction guranantee, which is not available in stores.

I have no IBO's underneath me, but when I do sign one up, I get absolutly nothing of the $47 sign-up fee or whatever it is. I get ZERO. It is not beneficial for me to merely sign people up and forget about them. I earn when they earn.

People don't understand that this is one of the most simple businesses ever created. So simple, it's almost confusing. It's exactly the same as a McDonald's franchise, just without the overhead cost and with thousands more products.

As far as tapes and books go, I did not see the need for them when I first signed up and was thinking very conservativley. I didn't want to spend money on them that I might not get back (this is before I understood how the business worked really) I was fortunate enough to have an IBO that would loan me his for free. I listened to some and read some, and if you do so with the intent of learning, they were very helpful. I am building my business with honesty and integrity and I am becoming more and more successful. The people that don't get it to work are either being taken advantage of by irresponsible upline IBO's and/or are using a terrible business strategy. With a basic understanding (and i stress basic, because I didn't know the first thing about business when I started) of how to do business, anyone can create a risidual income WITHOUT making "losers."

Tom --

If you have no IBO's beneath you, then how exactly are you making any money?

Tom,

I thank you for your principled disagreement and feedback! But I think you're misunderstanding my position, which you can better understand by reading the other Quixtar-related posts on this blog.

Tim, usually I wuold agree with you about the political blogs on this site, but I have to say you are dead wrong about Quixtar. I started in Novemember and I am making money. I am a full-time college student so I obviously do not have a ton of time to spend on this. I have not produced a single "loser" to earn my money. I have successfully sold the products on the Quixtar website that perform better an are cheaper than name brand store products. These products also have a 6-month satisfaction guranantee, which is not available in stores.

You say I am "dead wrong", but then go on to make a point I've never disputed. I am not so much against selling Quixtar products as I'm against doing "the plan" or "the system".

You are not even doing "the plan" if you are simply buying a product and re-selling it for a higher cost.

Have you ever seen me complain or write against Pampered Chef, Avon, Creative Memories, or any of those other reselling systems? No. Why is that? Because I have no problem with buying products and re-selling them. That's called capitalism, or trade (depending on who's doing the calling). In case it was somehow unclear, I'm no Marxist. :-)

People don't understand that this is one of the most simple businesses ever created. So simple, it's almost confusing. It's exactly the same as a McDonald's franchise, just without the overhead cost and with thousands more products

If you're simply re-selling a product, it's no different than what the girl scouts do when they sell cookies. That's not an issue.

But, again, you're not doing "the plan", and "the plan" is nothing like McDonald's.

It looks like I have made a few mistakes. Some of the positions I thought you held I had mistakenly mixed you up with other posts that I have read, not only from this site, but from others too. My apology, Tim.

I guess it is fair to say that I haven't actually "started the plan" because I haven't hired any IBO's under me. I am making money from people purchasing their household cleaners off of quixtar.com right now. I am speaking with a few who are interested in becoming IBO's and I'm sure they will sign up within the next two weeks. I will be a responsible upline and help them to succeed with minimal up-front investments. If they want to read books or listen to tapes, I would much rather loan them mine than have them buy their own. The more money that people spend before any return is recieved, the more discouraged they can become, and the longer it takes to break even and actually make a profit. My whole upline team works in the same manner as I have just described. My team is a winning, honest team, dedicated to helping people succeed. If after six months the IBO's arent making money and are discouraged, I will tell them to get out and get their money back. (Six month risk-free trial) I want to create income and help people succeed, but not at the expense of others.

I'm sure you would have no problem with that. I'm guessing your problem is with the IBO's that do not run the business with similar goals. I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that it is possible to earn money at the expense of no one. A successful team of IBO's can be built without creating any "losers."

I went to a few open meetings where they show you all that dream stuff and "get rich quick" stuff and that really turns me off. I don't need to explain why. What kept me going is that I knew it worked and I knew it wasn't hard, if done correctly. After being in it for a little while, going back to meetings like that make a lot more sense. I have a little more tolerance for them now, because they are actually right. I would never take someone to one and I don't like going to them myself, but I am starting to understand that they are right, even if they probably have the worst method of teaching it. The way they explain it sure makes it seem like a scam.

Tom,

I am speaking with a few who are interested in becoming IBO's and I'm sure they will sign up within the next two weeks. I will be a responsible upline and help them to succeed with minimal up-front investments. If they want to read books or listen to tapes, I would much rather loan them mine than have them buy their own. The more money that people spend before any return is recieved, the more discouraged they can become, and the longer it takes to break even and actually make a profit. My whole upline team works in the same manner as I have just described. My team is a winning, honest team, dedicated to helping people succeed. If after six months the IBO's arent making money and are discouraged, I will tell them to get out and get their money back. (Six month risk-free trial) I want to create income and help people succeed, but not at the expense of others.

I'm sure you would have no problem with that.

You would be wrong. But the point isn't that *I* would have a problem with that. The point is that you should have a problem with that.

I'll explain in a moment...

I'm guessing your problem is with the IBO's that do not run the business with similar goals.

Wrong again. Quixtar IBOs are programmed to think this way: "People only oppose Quixtar because they met a few bad IBOs."

No, friend. I'm met some wonderful IBOs. Many seeem like very nice people. And what they're doing is harmful. It doesn't become less harmful if you're nice about it.

Years ago, doctors proscribed Thalidamide as a sedativive for women. They certainly meant well. But the drug caused birth defects.

I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that it is possible to earn money at the expense of no one. A successful team of IBO's can be built without creating any "losers."

No, you're quite wrong. The minute you tell them to sign anyone up, and give them a financial motive for doing so, is the minute you admit my point and start the process of harming people.

Of course it was started already. See? You're starting to sign people up now. Just as your sponsor did you with you. Just as you will do to them. You are a frog in water; the temperature is rising.

In the end, the market will be saturated. There is no escape. It may not happen to you. It may not happen to people you sign up. But in the end, one of two things must occur...

(1) Someone can't find anyone to sign up, and wastes a lot of time in a saturated market, and/or

(2) Starts consuming the product themselves, beyond what they would want or need otherwise, including a loss for as long as they do this.

Unless you fail, and possibly even if you do, this will happen to many, many people.

And I think the martket's pretty close to being saturated anyway, so you'll probably be the one getting stiffed, or those you sign up.

People don't typically quit right away when this happens. Some go months or even years in this situation, trying to make it work. And as people get increasingly desparate, some will just drop out, but some will become increasingly unethical. Though you may not be guilty of the specific acts they commit, you will be the one who created the environment in which they did them, and you will have profited from them.

Good luck to you with these decisions. Let me know if I can do anything to help.

The possibility for failure is a reality in any business. A market that is satisfied with what they have and aren't interested in a new product is always a reality. How is this so much different? It costs much less to try this as opposed to a franchise with overhead costs. Signing up new IBO's is like expanding my franchise. I live in Minnesota and go to college in Iowa. If I sign up someone in Kentucky, a place I won't visit often, I have expanded the reach of my business to Kentucky. If I bought a Taco Bell restaurant, there is no guarantee that I will be successful and I might lose a lot of money and time that was invested in it. Tough. I won't lose nearly as much in this business as I would in a Taco Bell. But like I said before, I don't actually need to have IBO's in order to earn money. The reason why I would have down-line IBO's is to expand my business to other places.

The market becoming saturated is a long ways off. Quixtar has a small plurality of sales in a few catagories, but not a majority by far.

"Quixtar-powered Independent Business Owners (IBOs) generated revenues of $1.035 billion for Quixtar for the fiscal year ended Aug. 31, 2003, up from $901 million the year before. Also, IBOs generated an additional $58.3 million in revenues for Quixtar’s Partner Stores in fiscal 2003. Since the company’s launch, IBOs have generated revenues of more than $3.1 billion for Quixtar and more than $250 million for Partner Stores."

Tom,

And now we go through the inevitable process of deflating the arguments, one by one. Sorry.

The possibility for failure is a reality in any business. A market that is satisfied with what they have and aren't interested in a new product is always a reality. How is this so much different?

Because it's not merely a possibility in this business. It's how the winners make money. Re-read the chain letter example I took the time to write out for you. Please think about it -- my time is valuable, and I'm offering to spend it on you because, though you may not believe this, I'm trying to help you and your future victims.

For simplicity, imagine you have a hundred people. You tell one person she will make money if they sign up six others, and the six others do too. She tells 6. The 6 tell 36. Now there are 43 people signed up, and one with their costs covered. And the 36 have... only about 1.2 people left for each. They will fail. So will any they sign up. It will take them a long time, and a lot of effort to realize this. And if they're "consuming product" at higher costs, they'll lose that too.

They will be told they were just "losers" and didn't try hard enough. But trying harder would just shift the loss from one to another -- if everyone tried much, much harder all things would be no different.

Do you see? It fails because it must. Not because someone was unethical. Not because every business can fail. The one guy at the top made a killing, and six did pretty good by talking a group of people into a venture which mathematically had to to fail. The rest, who were all told the glorious story of the one sat the top, were all just cannon fodder.

The only part unknown is whether you're at the bottom or the top. I'm guessing you're at the bottom.

The market becoming saturated is a long ways off. Quixtar has a small plurality of sales in a few catagories, but not a majority by far.

So you think you're going to be at the top. (Don't they all?) But, if what I'm saying about the model is true, isn't that an ethically worse position to be in? Better to be the con man then the mark, eh? Wouldn't it be better to be neither?

Where you are in the chain doesn't change the way the process works. The real question isn't how far off saturation is -- it's whether it occurs at all, or not.

And it does. Just saying it's far off is a way of saying that you don't care what happens to a lot of people as long as you are fine and don't have to look at it, personally. Being a direct part of the responsibility for their potential suffering, isn't that worth considering?

So now you'll have to tell yourself saturation doesn't happen, lest you admit what it means.

I know what your next response will be (or should be, anyway), so I'll save you the trouble: Population grown doesn't happen fast enough to stop saturation. 0.6% isn't enough. Even 5% wouldn't be enough. It just drags out the end stages a bit.

Kumar, is it a business or a relegion? or some social improvement scheme?

BWW says it's just a business?

ok so i've been reading these back and forth arguments and im just throwing in my tow cents.

For the record I have not joind BWW but been to 2 meetings.

Here are my thoughts:

1. they tell you that you don't have to bring people underneath you to make money.
This is true but not realy. If you don't bring people underneath you and just buy the products yourself (and maybe your parents and friends buy too) then you make about $30 to $50 a month from your "bonus checks".

2. One thing that alot of people haven't talked about is the products themselves. I keep hearing this back and forth arguments about how its a pyramid scheme and how its not a scam and you have to have "big dreams" but no one is talking about the simple fact: 99% of this country won't buy the products b/c they just aren't that good of a deal. With websites like, Ebay, Amazon, Overstock who the hell would go to Quixtar to buy something. Thats the main logical disfunction of this whole system to me. Sure you can try to compare this to Mcdonalds or TacoBell but the simple fact is this: if i buy a tacobell fanchise i know somethig for sure PEOPLE LIKE FOOD, PEOPLE LIE TACOS, I SHOULDN'T HAVE A HARD TIME SELLING MY PRODUCT. There is no comparison between fastfood chains and Quixtar.
For any of you people you are in the program now and firm believers in it, please give me some examples of great deals for sale, i don't care it can be anything, MP3 players, computers, clothes, tv's. Don't give me this crap on pills and face creams im talking about products that most of us would use.

so ultimatley what happens is the IBO realizes that he is not selling this item fast enought and that his parents and friends just aren't gonna buy enough of this crap to make him any real money so the next logical step is to bring in some people beneath you to help you sell some stuff. Maybe these new guys are better at selling, maybe they know some people that know some people who need some vitamins and face creams, and so the pyramid starts.

Im not saying that there haven't been some people that have made great money from this system and are rich but I would safely say for evey rich succesfull person in the company there are 500 to 1000 faliures. So those are you odds, 1 out of 500 at best.
are you a gambling man, i am but i don't like those odds.

Well, if you all think that it is so wrong and is basically a pyramiad, what makes you think you know better than the leagal advisors of the thousands of companies that are in partnership with this corporation?
By the way, just that you may know, you only make money by referring people to the website and they make purchases(creating volume). You basically act as the commercial and you have a choice to either refer people and earn from the corporation through the volume created or you may choose to just purchase stuff by yourself and get a relatively low pay back. The point is, whenever you refer anyone to the website, their money is not and will not end up in the person who does the referring. The money goes to the corporation(in exchange for goods and services) and the corporation pays the referring person a bonous based on the volume created.
Buying CDs and books is optional. Colleges always determine what books you are supposed to buy and you get a choice whether to buy or not, bottom line being, in school, your success largely depends on how much you study and that is the same case here, buy the books and CDs, learn and apply and you get wealthy.
You know, there are thousands upon thousands of people that are doing this and are making money. The FTC has no problem with the corporation, the BBB has no problems either, the partner companies have no problems either but those who do either tried and gave up too soon or don't even know what goes on but argue based on what they have heard from misinformed people.
None of you complainig here have come up with a way that I can create an extra ammount of money and if you did, perhaprs you would get some people to work with you and some to sit there and complain about you. However, just like in college, not everyone there graduates and further more, not every graduate gets the kind of job he wants. However, they don't go about telling everyone else how they were ripped by the school since they failed their classes for not wanting to purchase books or not going to class.
So please, if you were not strong enough to make it work for you and you didn't want to try hard enough, don't ruin it for those who want to make it work for them. College students are making it big, already debt free proffessionals are making it and so is everyone who wants it to work hard enough.Get more information before you go about accusing people or just keep it to yourself and watch it grow.
thnx

Nice comments 'frm_va'.

But let me 'edify' you on a couple of things (edify means to educate to enlighten, dispite what you may have been told by your upline if you didn't know that).

As far as the 'partnership' of these thousands of other companies you speak of. Quixtar basically plays the part of the middleman for them. You or I could just as easily 'partner' with these companies by adding them to our websites. And most of these companies will tell you flat out (and have on some occaisions) that their relationship with Quixtar is one of supplier/vendor and nothing more.

You also mention thousands and thousands of people who are doing this and making money. If we agree that making money means that your bonus check at the end of the month is more than what you spent in that same month then I'll ask you this:

Can you provide me with just 10 names of people who have made diamond in the last 5 years that became IBOs AFTER September of 1999? You can't can you? That's because there have not been any Quixtar diamonds. They're all former Amway distributors. So much for success.

You ask for better Ideas. Take a look at this post:

http://sinkinginquixand.blogspot.com/2004/09/alternatives.html#comments

There's a bunch of alternatives to Quixtar for you.

You also mention the fact that not all who attend college will graduate. This is very true but what you fail to realize in your regurgitated 'tapespeak' is that the turnover rate for those involved in Quixtar is 100%! This means that for every IBO who joins each year, the same amount quit (the numbers of distributors/IBOs has not changed in 30 years!). AND based on my last example of how many new diamonds have cropped up in the last 5 years, that's a ZERO percent 'graduation' rate for Quixtar with diamond level being the benchmark for success (after all you don't see couples who are supplementing their income in the Quixtar success stories do you).

A word of advise: lay off the tapes for a while and get some real information.

Peace. And God bless.

frm_va:

That's all well and good, but it has nothing to do with anything I commented on.

I'm not trying to pick on you but you have just succeeded in putting your foot in your mouth just as every other IBO who is presented with these questions has.

I know they teach duplication in Quixtar but I'm not sure this is what they had in mind.

If it's truly working for you (per the example of what making money means in my last comment) then I congratulate you. If not (and you're the only one who will really know) then be honest with yourself and see if you can at least answer these questions on your own. Do your own homework and see if you can verify just one of the 'facts' you quoted above that I questioned.

Good luck.

What I don't understand is that there are far better and concrete opportunities than Quixtar to raise money. Quixtar IS hard work. Amway is a household joke and Quixtar is earning the same name now. Building an MLM with that stigma attached, why?

Peter is dead on. To sell overpriced lotion and potion, one better be GOOD. And this is the honest part of the plan, selling! After the natural evolution of a MLM / pyramid, only way left is to sell tools.

A message to every one: Earning some extra cash is NOT hard. It can be done without Quixtar. Just look properly.

Good answers. A minor addition:

Well, if you all think that it is so wrong and is basically a pyramiad, what makes you think you know better than the leagal advisors of the thousands of companies that are in partnership with this corporation?

"Legal advisors" advise on what is legal. Nobody here is saying Quixtar is illegal. My contention is that Quixtar is unethical and generally incredibly unprofitable, not illegal. It's not "illegal" to lie to a friend or tattoo the word "STUPID" on your forehead. Does that instantly make these actions profitable and ethical?

What kind of silly reasoning is that?

Regarding Quixtar's many "partners": Yes, many companies make some money by "partnering" with Quixtar. But an IBO is not in the same situation.

The IBO is the consumer, not the supplier of these products. Just because it's profitable for the suppliers does not mean it will be profitable for you. You're the one buying their products and giving them your money -- usually at a marked-up cost.

For example, there's a local lottery. Lots of stores "partner" with the lottery to sell tickets. They profit. But that doesn't prove, somehow, that playing the lottery is profitable for me. As a lottery ticket buyer, I'm in a completely different situation.

Lexus sells a lot of cars. Does that mean you're going to make a profit by buying one? How does a parnter making a profit mean you're going to make one? Your situation isn't even remotely similar.

Saying "this is legal" is such a dumb argument. Why do people fall for this? Sticking your head in a pail of mud is legal. But what will that do for you?

"Legal" does not mean something is ethical.

"Legal" does not mean something will be profitable for you.

Please start thinking for yourself and asking those questions.

Sorry for kicking what should be a dead horse, but I'm constantly amazed that people can't see that the IBO role is nothing like the role of those who create the products IBOs buy.

I think the other responses above from Imran and Jason addressed frm_va's other points extermely well.

Regarding legality issue, please read Quixtar own rules. I'll be honest with you. Those rules make Quixtar legal. I'll be even more honest with you. 99% IBOs do NOT follow those rules, making it illegal. They haven't read them either!

Does Quixtar want to be legal and enforce those rules? No. So that makes Quixtar ...uh....not so legal. I'll call partner of crime.

I cant believe how many stupid people there are in this world. My god, do all of you Ambots actually believe that your upline leadership really gives a damn about you being successful. Not many people in this world actually truely care about other people, and when it comes to making money, that number is even lower. Rest assured that the only pockets that a diamond is worried about filling is his own. Why would a complete stranger tell you that if you follow his plan, you can have the good life, are all of the diamonds just good samaritans? Hardly, they are lining their pockets with your money, and thats their only motivation, thats the only reason they care about you. Is this a pretty cynical view, yeah it is, is it true, hell yes. Open your eyes fools, nobody cares about you except for your own family and friends. And if someones you dont know claims to be your friend and wants to help you make money and have fun and make all of your dreams come true, you just have to follow thier plan, overlook your greed and ask yourself why this person gives damn about you. Believe me, its not because you look like winner, or you look like an interesting person, or they just care about helping people out, you are just another mark.

have fun guys..get me a mentor, who can show me how to prosper..school didn't teach me that, my boss never tells me that..i was broke..bankrupt..
quixtar works..it's hardwork for lazy nerds, who have low self esteem and want easy money..you guys should work in stock exchanges to get a real idea of corporate america and then come and talk all this shit..go ask your dad how much he worked and how much he earn and then go ask a britt diamond if you can contact..how much he earns..go ask bill gates what he does..go ask the ebay guys how many scams has be been involved in then talk anything about quixtar..stop google from promoting gmail, and all the other stuff..you guys are not fit to be blessed and helped and brought up in life. so chill, take a nap and tomorrow morning when u wake up see you depressed, stressed, frustrated, sucked and tired.

I see fiction-writing is alive and well. Even if grammar, capitalization, and punctuation are dead on arrival, at least in the Quixtar IBO community.

(Is there some rule saying pro-Quixtar folks need to be incapable of writing clearly?)

You say anyone who doesn't do Quixtar is a "lazy nerd". How is it possible to level that accusation against others when you can't even put in the effort capitalize your own words or make full sentences while promoting your business? Can you not see you're being unintentionally hilarious?

Everyone else can; you're only fooling yourself.

you guys should work in stock exchanges to get a real idea of corporate america

No, stock exchanges will tell you about the financial industry, not average corporate America. I've worked in both. I have no doubt you've spent precious little time in either.

go ask a britt diamond if you can contact..how much he earns

StevieB, maybe if your system actually worked you wouldnt have to get rejected over and over. If you were actually tought how to prospect the right people, not just anybody on the street, you might see some results. Thats a huge part of the problem with AmQuix(A/Q), they(the A/QMO's) target everyone. It's because they dont really care about you, they only want numbers. Getting rejected over and over doesnt sound like a plan for success, it sounds like beating your head against a concrete wall over and over expecting different results every time. Having a thick skull does not equal "mental toughness". You Ambots say the same crap over and over. So according to you, anyone that quits A/Q has quit on thier dreams? Steve, youre so full of crap it's coming out of your ears. Cant you see how your "leadership" has programmed you to think leaving A/Q means that you are giving up on your future? A/Q is not the only road to success, people are doing it every day, you cant say that about A/Q. Less than 1% of anyone involved in A/Q ever turns a solid profit. The real money is made not by selling products, but by selling the tapes and books that I'm willing to bet are laying all over your home. Only the leadership get a cut of this cash. Open your eyes Steve, you are getting screwed and manipulated, THEY ARE TAKING YOUR MONEY!

I forgot to add one thing. Steve, how many people exactly have achieved "financial freedom" in the Britt system since Quixtar opened in 1999? I'll give you a hint, it's the same number as your IQ, 0. All of the Britt diamonds moved over from Amway. Five years and nobody has made it yet. Sounds like a great system, where do I sign. BTW, why arent you out STP'ing? Youre never going to make it to triple scoop diamond commander sitting in front of your computer.

I love the time and effort that people that are not in the britt system put in to stop people from trying to use the system to bring themselves financial freedom.

Glad to hear that. I'm sure Tim will be glad. We'll keep it up. You like it right?

Sure the system is not for everyone.

Yup, it's for naive ppl, like I was when I got sponsored. I was a new immigrant in Canada and never heard 'A' word. (Amway). I believed that it is a 'new' ideology, partner of Microsoft and IBM (Being an IT professional that was enough for me) and poorest diamond make $400K. Lies, deceit and fraud.

Not everyone is mentally tough enough to face rejection over and over again, yet the people that do gain the financial freedom that they know they are worth. The only people that the system does not work for is the quitters. People that quit on their dreams. For those that are in the system good luck

You wanna talk about quitters? Rich Devos and Jay Van-andel were distributes of Nutrilite. They QUIT, formed Amway and sponsored Nutrilite people. Now they hate when Bo Short does the same thing, although Bo Short left on much high moral ground.

formerdiamond.com

And how about all the diamonds who 'quit' their other business / job to 'retire' ;););)

And wanna talk rejection? It's not rejection, it's slow painful realization of the lies person is told to.

Realization # 1: In plan they show that 70% of money is wasted on middleman in actual business, and all I have to do is redirect and save $$. But Quixtar products are WAY too expensive. How come they didn't show me before signing up?

Realization # 2: They ain't no partner of Microsoft or IBM

Realization # 3: That life changing seminar was actually 6 times a year and it's all same!!! so are tapes.

Realization # 4: My sponsor is not that 'wide' as platinum claimed. I'm his only downline!!! Man that guy is slow :D

Realization # 5: My 'oh so rich' platinum's house is more crappy than mine.

Realization # 6: That 'new' sapphire in upline LOS is in business for 9 years :o

Realization # 7: There is no security even in platinum. Neither much $$$. Emerald equates to corporate job. By then u r getting good tool $$$.

Realization # 8: ppl above u do ANY thing to take money from u, conferences, banquettes, tapes, seminars, even the hotel room for seminar has diamond code and diamond, as they book in bulk and sell u @ profit.

Realization # 9: That’s how u'll make money. Lie to ppl knowing that 99% majority will never even break even and suck as much money as u can. They are NOT helping u.

Realization # 10: Poorest diamond does not make $400K. An average diamond makes $90K or so.

Realization # 11: Pins are just once achievement. E.g Many diamonds, platinums, silvers are not at that pin level any more. Infact, majority of diamond ship fell right after they go diamond and plug in to pool money. As they had bought that pin level.

Realization # 12: Every body buy pins, or at one point they have done that......or force downline to buy more so they can reach more. From 300 PV to CAM. Winners make u stretch ;) (Tape title)

Realization # 13: Majority lower pins are broke and in financial trouble. Even including some platinums.

Realization # 14: You never gonna be 'be ur own boss' as u have signed up BSMAA, given ur right to go to court. Thus at the mercy of some top SOB.

Realization # 15: There is no financial security. Quixtar had terminated CAM ships and Diamond ships.

So after that, I didn't need any rejection to quit and no motivation could keep me.

You must be happy that I spent 10 minutes typing it :) I'll be happy if u read it. We both are happy :)

Peace.

I was approached by a lady today in Barnes & Noble with a business card and some flashy talk about starting my own business. This was the third time was approached in this particular Barnes & Noble. I was sure it was all too good to be true.

Logical Mind: Which LOS you were in? I was also in Gala LOS, and it is most abusive.

I was in Kumar - Kankan - Vishal ...... Ahmer - Wahid line. Know any of them?

what are the products that you have to sell/buy?
Can I buy bread?

No. No perishables. U still have to go to grocery store :)

Mostly Vitamins and Make up + Skin care, stuff normal ppl spend 1/20th less than Quixtar.

One question,
If everyone believes that this business works and start with this business,and then where does last set of people in the world should go to make money?....MOON? MARS??????????????

prabhu -- Heheh, excellent point! "Showing the plan" doesn't feed anyone. Put a bunch of Quixtar IBOs on an island, tell them only to do Quixtar-related activity, and they'll starve to death very quickly.

You morons listen!

This is the reason why there are so many broke psedo intellectuals in the world, who give free advice. You guys are destined to sit in the stupid cubicle until you are 65 and bitch about life and others. I can give answers to all your stupid questions, but I wont!! Guys, are you smarter and financially savvy than Zig Zaglar, Robert Kiosaki, Paul zane pilzer etc, think about it what they say about network marketing. Hold on...they are not amwy or Q* guys. Guys, do you know what you are talking about? you know what pyramid scheme means? Somebody puts something on the internet and you belive it? Someone rightly called the internet the 'bathroom wall of society'. Guys, being in the business for one year listening to tapes and reading books ONLY doesn't result in the success in the business. Show me your calander for the one year you were in the business i will tell you why it dint work for you. Taking membership in a Gym doesn't make you like governer of california. The person who told that you cannot sell and market anything in this business, you are WRONG. I make decent profits in retail from this business, nto counting networking. If you are making so much money in your current profession after 10,15 years of education and experiance, how do you expect to make couple of thousand bucks in 2 years in this business? what makes you think that you moron? Any business takes 5-7 years to break even and get into profits. The pay check mentality gets you frustrated and makes you look for results in a year. Your upline makes money of off you?? are you kidding me? which planet do you come from? How much money your current company makes on you? dont you have a problem with that? this is a business not a charity. regarding tapes, why does microsoft charge hundreds of dollars on a CD which costs few cents? did you ever thought of that? If you want to be a doctor, dont get an advice from a medical school drop out if being a medical doctor is good or not or if that profession is good. He will give his 100 different reasons why being a doctor is not good and it will not work. Go to a successful doctor and ask some valid and intelligent questions not knucle head questions like walmart prices are lower than Q* prices etc. First change how you think then you will get a different perspective of anything not only this business. If you are savvy enough to analyze a $6b company you will not be sittting in that stupid cubicle instead of spending time with your family. Wake up and get a life!!

YEAH MOMMY!!!! Another Ambot to play with!!!!! My last one broke, Ambots seem to be very fragile. Take it easy everyone, this one is fired up. Dont want to scare him away, that is if he has the balls to come back anyways. You guys notice how most Ambots "hit and run"? How could you not notice? Well SunnyDelight, now that you have puked your rhetoric all over this blog, why dont you get down to some cold, hard numbers. You basically said nothing of substance in your last post, why dont you prove to us why Quixtar is so great. Why over the last 40 years the company has not grown one bit? Why is the IBO turn over rate so high? Why is there so much negative information about AmQuix in existance, even before the internet came about? Why is AmQuix not a pyramid scheme in your eyes? Why do all Ambots feel the need to berate others? Why dont you know a damn thing about your own company? How much research did you do before signing up, and where did you get your info?

One more question. Why do almost all Ambots write in incoherent run on sentences that are indecipherable?

Whoa buddy, you're gonna take off just like that. The debate hasnt even begun. You have not answered a single question, you just spewed forth with more rhetoric that you heard from your upline. You wont answer our questions because you dont have the answers. Your "bathroom walls" argument is completely ignorant, the voices you are trying to stiffle are ones with a hell of a lot more knowledge about AmQuix than you. You proved this point the second you posted here, you know almost nothing about what you are involved in. I'll start over with one very simple question. Why dont you tell us what percentage of IBO's make it to EDC?

You morons listen!

I'm all ears.

This is the reason why there are so many broke psedo intellectuals in the world, who give free advice.

We voice our opinions, like you. Is that a problem? I didn't know its a bad thing. At least in a free country.

You guys are destined to sit in the stupid cubicle until you are 65 and bitch about life and others.

Be a false prophet, or wanna talk about false profits of Quixtar?

I can give answers to all your stupid questions, but I wont!!

Because you can't. If you can I dare ya

Guys, are you smarter and financially savvy than Zig Zaglar, Robert Kiosaki, Paul zane pilzer etc, think about it what they say about network marketing. Hold on...they are not amwy or Q* guys.

You answered urself. They are not. Why is that? They discovered where the $ is, selling motivation to IBOs like you. If Quixtar is oh so great, why Mr. Kiosaki is not an IBO?

Guys, do you know what you are talking about? you know what pyramid scheme means?
Yes, and yes. Do you? Define pyramid scheme.

Somebody puts something on the internet and you belive it?

No. Somebody tell me in mall or in a living room about something, I don't believe it either. Not any more. I research it and ask for proof. I definitely not believe an IBO who bug me in malls and try to invite me to a secret meeting hiding company name. YUCK!

Someone rightly called the internet the 'bathroom wall of society'.

Where did you posted again? Right, some one else's blog. You are dripping with integrity don't you?

Guys, being in the business for one year listening to tapes and reading books ONLY doesn't result in the success in the business. Show me your calander for the one year you were in the business i will tell you why it dint work for you.

I can. But tell me first, is it working for you? what was ur last paycheck? What are ur expenses?

Taking membership in a Gym doesn't make you like governer of california.

No. Neither do Gym claims so. Quixtar claims to make a person 'free' in 2-5 years.

The person who told that you cannot sell and market anything in this business, you are WRONG. I make decent profits in retail from this business, nto counting networking. If you are making so much money in your current profession after 10,15 years of education and experiance, how do you expect to make couple of thousand bucks in 2 years in this business? what makes you think that you moron? Any business takes 5-7 years to break even and get into profits. The pay check mentality gets you frustrated and makes you look for results in a year.

Which planet are YOU from? Tell it to ppl showing the plan. Quixtar present 2-5 years plan. 4-6 months platinum, 2-5 years diamond. If you tell prospects that in 5-7 years they'll just break even, how much will be sponsored? Who am I kidding here, you don't even tell them the company name and invite into a secret meeting?

Btw, is it WRONG to look for results in a year? Small businesses SHOULD pay off soon. Else change it!

Also, IBOs give income misrepresentations like: if you are somewhat serious, u can make quarter a million in 12-18 months by working 10-12 hours a week (dateline expose)

Your upline makes money of off you?? are you kidding me? which planet do you come from? How much money your current company makes on you? don you have a problem with that? this is a business not a charity.

Yes it's not. It's a scam.

Tell me, upline are open about how they make majority of their income? Is it right to charge 900% profit on these tools which don't work? How many diamonds Quixtar have produced in last 2-5 years? Ppl who signed up in Quixtar, NOT amway? Answer : 0. So they are bilking their download so much money for a system that don't work?

Also, give me a success example of a retail based plan. It is also flawed. No sales outside means a negative sum game. At any given time, organization as a whole is losing money. Counting all the 100, 300 PVers. Which are at least 80% of the total IBO force at any given instance. This is pyramid.

regarding tapes, why does microsoft charge hundreds of dollars on a CD which costs few cents? did you ever thought of that?

This is false. Their software has value, it helps hundred of thousands of ppl do their job and make a living. It has value in it, i.e. software.

Quixtar CDs are just plain old emotional rah rah with a little or no change from the last tape. There are very few CDs that actually teach retail. Besides, what are the results of those CDs, 0 Quixtar only diamond since Quixtar inception? it's been 5 years. They teach 2-5 year plan. Where are the results?

If you want to be a doctor, dont get an advice from a medical school drop out if being a medical doctor is good or not or if that profession is good. He will give his 100 different reasons why being a doctor is not good and it will not work.

This is wrong. I'm a successful software developer and I don't recommend every one do it. It takes specific skills and aptitude. I tried doing engineering, couldn't do it but won't even think of saying any thing against it. The guy who recommended me to go for computer sciences wasn't in that field. He tried to but settled for other field. But he recommended me to go for it big time.

Go to a successful doctor and ask some valid and intelligent questions not knucle head questions like walmart prices are lower than Q* prices etc.

Why is it knuckle head question? Any real business person would ask about prices, value, quality, competitiveness and precisely, the potential (and ethical) market of products. And he will be very concerned about competing businesses.

First change how you think then you will get a different perspective of anything not only this business.

How to think about it? Tell me. I'm confused. Is it a business? Than why do I have to sign up BSMAA? why there is non-competence clause 6.5 that forbid me to retail any thing other than Quixtar? again, u tell me how to change my thinking about businesses.

If you are savvy enough to analyze a $6b company you will not be sittting in that stupid cubicle instead of spending time with your family. Wake up and get a life!!

You are assuming too much. Are you spending more time with your family than me? Are IBOs? What i saw was otherwise.

So you are telling me to NOT voice my opinion about a company? Why is that upsetting you to the extent that you call ppl moron? Don't make me open can of ass whooping on u, trust me, u don't want that. I'm not doing so for the respect of this blog owner. He won't like it. Besides, ChrisA is enough :)

This $6B company is sooo stupid that they are not even #1 on google. Search Quixtar in google. Who is # 1. ;)

SunnyD,

Actually, it is you I should be asking for "more". You are making the classic losing-debater's mistake of forgetting the audience.

You think you are "winning". Great! Good for you. You can go to bed at night and tell yourself how brilliant you are, etc. Congratulations!

But the reader can't help but noticed you've not answered a single challenge put your way, whereas your opponents have countered, apparently successfully, every assertion you've made. You still haven't explained how a business which returns it's average active IBO $115/month constitutes a basis for serious financial security.

Simply saying "lol" repeatedly is hardly an effective response. (Of course, simply calling everyone who disagrees with you "losers" wasn't a particularly convincing opening gambit either.)

I would be dishonest if I said I didn't wish you would change your mind. I would, because I cannot see any good in this business, and thus assume you're one of the vast many who will be screwed, or perhaps will be (or may already be) one of the dishonest monsters who know what they're doing. Either way, I pity you. I don't wish that on anyone, even someone who has nothing but contempt for others, as you apparently have.

But if you're unreachable, so be it. But you do provide an excellent example of the dangers of this business for others. And that is of more concern to me.

In that, I thank you for your comments. As long as you keep it non-obscene, and don't repeat allegations people have answered already (ignoring them as if no-one has spoken) you're welcome to post more.

Thank you.

SunnyD is still sticking around, is it because I said you didnt have the balls too? It sure isnt because you want to have an intellegent conversation, that is if you are even capable of one and at this point I dont think you are. So go ahead and keep making your sniping little comments and we'll keep trying to engage you. Earlier you said, "i rather be stupid and rich than intelligent and broke", well guess what, you are more than likely on the path to stupid and broke than anything else, good luck.

Quixtar FACT: Platinum annual income in 2003 was $15,240. Down %39 from 2 years prior. What say you about this FACT SunnyD?

Chris,

Please stop feeding the trolls.

You're attempting to have a debate about facts with someone who isn't interested in (and is perhaps not even capable of) doing so. This is a futile undertaking, and wastes blog space and the readers' time.

There's a wise saying you should learn:

"Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time, and annoys the pig."

SunnyD's entire argument has degenerated to repeating the word "lol". Any reader can see this is as the debate equivalent of the hammer dropping on an empty chamber -- he's lost, he's out of ammo, and has no clue where to go from here.

Can't you figure that out, too? You seem to imagine you're going to change his mind. You won't, it's not your job to do so, so please stop trying.

Being wrong, sadly, will be quite enough punishment.

Next!...

Sorry, Ive been dealing with the Bots long enough to know that I cant change his mind. I guess you could say that I'm SunnyD's extreme opposite. I know its childish, but its fun to me to let people make asses of themselves. Out of respect for you and your blog(which is excellent BTW) I will refrain from trying to provoke SunnyD any further, unless of course he makes a comment worth replying to.

Very Soon BWW will add this site in its list of 'Dont's'

Like....

1.Dont ask suggestion from failure person
2.dont go to this site http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/000617.html
3blah blah....
4......

Logical Mind: Which LOS you were in? I was also in Gala LOS, and it is most abusive.

I was in Kumar - Kankan - Vishal ...... Ahmer - Wahid line. Know any of them?

Posted by: Imran Aziz on February 24, 2005 01:34 AM"

Imran, I was in Gala-Shah line. Yes, I do know Kumar, Kankan, and Vishal. Kumar was my favourite diamond in BWW because of his speaking skills. But since I have been comlpetely de-programmed, I cannot get to respect any diamond. In any case, I will be starting a blog of my own soon and of course reveal myself and my personal stories much to my upline's disliking. I am still at very good terms with my upline (two of them) and they will probably brand me as a traitor once I put everything on the web, but my point is that I will honestly speak the truth and if they distance themselves from me becasue of it, well then they are not realy worthy of my friendship in the first place. In any case, maybe we'll chat on the phone sometimes. Once you get this message, let me know and I'll give you my number. I have spoken in depth with Scott Larsen as well from Germany. By the way, I see you run a website of your own. How much are the operating costs and how do I go about setting one up for myself?
------------------------------

Logical mind. I appologize I completely overlooked that thred. Good idea of start a blog. I am still good terms with my sponsor and I went through all this "traitor" thingy. He was programmed by uplines and he passed all that thing on to me that "Ppl lose money in the business and u should move on, u were such a god guy but now u blog against Quixtar u r real evil and our lawyers will see u etc."

Now we are in good terms again, and my blog is moving on :)

Cost to start a blog: 0 in blogspot.com

I use godaddy.com to host my site. Domain cost $7ish a year. (cheap eh!)

Hosting with 500 MB and database / scripting support etc. costs $3 / month. (CAD)

Not bad eh!

checkout my blog at http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com

Funny thing: Alticor.com visits it daily :) parent company of Quixtar.com

U can see my email now and mail me. We'll sure talk.

Kumar WAS my favourite diamond as well. I always quote Kumar and sugeet as other's names are either difficult to spell or I couldn't understand their accents :) U know this was a big problem in Gala LOS. I didn't understand the southeren accent of many speakers either. Kumar was so far the clearest.

THIS IS ONLY FOR WINNERS AND LEADERS THAT LIVE ON FAITH NOT FEAR.FREEDOM.

Ok. I thought it was a business. I didn't know it was some braveheart style movement.

Caleb,

Did you come up with all those statistics yourself? Cause I remember hearing them from a motivational speaker too. But the funny thing is that no one could ever back them up with anything. Makes for a real believeable business when all these horrific statistics are flying 'round with nothing to back them up.

Jason,

I agree. That was one my first tip-offs too. I tried very hard to get them to give me hard evidence, and they would not. In fact, my sponsor's upline asked me, in our first meeting: "What would be the sign of an ethical business?" I said: "They would open their books for audits and make their records clear to everyone." She winced visibly.

After much run-around, I reasoned: If this business was as good as they imply, they would be publishing all the data. For exmaple, they must know what the average IBO makes. [They do, and I do now, too. It's $115/month or less.] And if people are making so much, why not publish their tax receipts, like politicians must?

For if the evidence helped them, they would surely offer it. Because they didn't, I thus realized the evidence itself had to be hidden.

Word to the wise.

What it takes Sarah?

Me: They do, and I do now, too. It's $115/month or less.

You: You people are cruel man.

Tim-

That's real cute trying to put a bible verse in there in an attempt to make the b.s. you talk about more 'powerful.'
Do you want to know why the AVERAGE IBO only makes about 115/mo. It's because the majority of the losers who get into this thing decide to quit or they are little girls who are scared of work only to bring down the average of all those who do get in and do the work persistently and consistently.
I honestly feel that you are so caught up in your pathetic life and you are going no where fast that you have nothing better to do then to try and bring down a system that can make anyone a couple thousand a month if they want it bad enough or more.
So, you go ahead and tell me something that I DON'T know, and I will go ahead and tell you why that is. The last thing I'm going to deny is what the average IBO makes and it says that right in the website in BIG BOLD LETTERS where you get registered... LOOK at how many IBOs get started every year.
Half of them only get started cuz the money looks good but they are scared of a dirty four-letter word called WORK! This business isn't for everyone and I'm certainly glad someone as ignorant and stupid as you aren't out there building this thing because you would be another loser that quits. Get a backbone, Tim... NOT a wishbone.

First Zach, we've been reading EXACT same comments for years by pro quixtar, going after mesengers, not the message, same old same old tape talk, personal attacks. You parrot or human?

That's real cute trying to put a bible verse in there in an attempt to make the b.s. you talk about more 'powerful.'

Nice... that's nice. I appreciate your insight and here's another thing that I'll tip you off on. I probably shouldn't have taken the personal shots but I did just because I had just read it and I was a little perturbed. So I take some of that 'direct' stuff back towards Tim. So, now that I've gotten that off my chest I'll attempt to go somewhat further.

I guess a big part of me just wants you to know that the Better Business Bureau and the Federal Trade Commission regulate and keep this business system legalized. A long long time ago when the franchise system got created it was only 11 votes shy of being shot down by congress as an illegal pyramid. However, obviously, today it's the best way of making money. It's created more wealth then gas, oil, and real estate combined.
Do you want to know how I outperformed my expenses when I first got started? It is something called customers (members/clients) I had people that just wanted to shop conveniently from me and that was volume flowing through my business. All I spent was about $125 bucks a month just on stuff that I always needed anyway and netted much more on my checks than what I ended up spending. That is the same as ANY store you go into. Do you think a Wal-Mart is going to succeed if nobody goes in and buys everything but they buy all those products for the shelves and pay all their employees? Of course not! I figured it out, it IS possible. The system is legal and does work and does still give profit. Glad to hear your insight though.

Hi! I'm yet another IBO who failed to read the rules for comments, and once again posted a comment which needed to be deleted because it violated the very simple rules explained there!

Zach! Welcome!

That's real cute trying to put a bible verse in there in an attempt to make the b.s. you talk about more 'powerful.'

Err, no, I wrote it because I honestly believe it summarizes the way Quixtar IBOs must do business in order to succeed. It certainly sums up the typical methodology, and gives an explanation as to why that should be so.

Rather than being angry I quoted the verse, you should consider what it's saying, and either attempt to disprove it or its relevance, or take it to heart.

Do you want to know why the AVERAGE IBO only makes about 115/mo. It's because the majority of the losers who get into this thing decide to quit...

No, Zach, you're quite incorrect. That average is only among active IBOs, and excludes "quitters" (who are no longer even IBOs) and "inactive" IBOs who no longer give it an effort.

Yep, that's the pathetic average income of those IBOs who are trying to do it right now.

Now, you could just say, perhaps, that there are a lot of "loser" IBOs in Quixtar. Yep, I'd agree with that. A lot of losers to make a few winners.

I honestly feel that you are so caught up in your pathetic life...

... that I have other things to do than fixate on Quixtar, as so many IBOs do...

... and you are going no where fast that you have nothing better to do then to try and bring down a system that can make anyone a couple thousand a month if they want it bad enough or more...

I post a comment or two on Quixtar every couple weeks -- and only because some IBO (like you) has freaked out that I've someone has spoken about it less-than-glowing terms. (Poor dears can't stand the shock, apparently.)

I have about 800 posts here, posted over two years. About 10 are about Quixtar, and they get tons of IBOs attacking me because I dared to speak.

What does that tell you?, and who needs a life again?

As far as I can see, I'm simply filling in details omitted from the standard IBO presentation. Smart consumers can make up their own minds.

I just think it's sad how desperately threatened many IBOs apparently are by the disclosure of honest information about a prospect's likihood to succeed.

Afraid of the light, as I mentioned above.

So, you go ahead and tell me something that I DON'T know, and I will go ahead and tell you why that is. The last thing I'm going to deny is what the average IBO makes and it says that right in the website in BIG BOLD LETTERS where you get registered... LOOK at how many IBOs get started every year.

You're welcomed to demonstrate the prominence of this warning. I don't believe it's anywhere near as big and bold and obvious as you imply. If Quixtar was a real great opportunity, they'd be proud to put the average earning on the front page, not hide it deep inside a contract, and that, only when required by the FTC.

The fact they don't should be telling you something.

Of course I'm glad that you agree with me that there's nothing wrong with telling prospective IBOs that they're entering an "opportunity" where they're likely to make, on average, less than minimum wage would at ten hours per week.

But since you agree that's a fine thing to disclose, I'm not sure why you're so unhappy. We both agree it's great to let people know what they're in for, right? Excellent, then we have no disagreement there. (And thus you're posting here... why?)

As to why they'd sign up despite such a warning, I'd suggest (a) the warning isn't nearly as obvious as you imply, and/or (b) perhaps they're not the brightest people, and/or (c) perhaps they've been deceived about the meaning of that number, as you clearly seem to be, and/or (d) perhaps, as you also imply below, extraordinarily lazy people are disproportionately attracted to become one of those "active IBOs" who contribute to that average.

But the challenge isn't to me, here. The burden of proof is really upon you to explain how such an allegedly extraordinary business opportunity can pay its active participants a measly $115 per month.

To me, it would seem that by the law of averages, when you say there are a few big "winners", you must then be then saying there are a vastly larger number of active, working IBOs, earning far below that number ($115 per month) in order to keep the average so very low.

In other words, a few big winners are produced at the expense of lots and lots of losers. Who are IBOs. Active IBOs.

Who, strangely, defend what is being done to them.

Great scam, I'd say.

Half of them only get started cuz the money looks good but they are scared of a dirty four-letter word called WORK!

What a hilarious argument! Are you sure you're not really an anti-Quixtar person in disguise?

I say this because you're saying that they get started, but "fail" because they can't even work the eight hours per week which allegedly is all that's required to rake it in?

Again, if true, then what does this say about Quixtar? That it tends to appeal to people who can't even work eight hours per week? It says the signup process tends to get all the wrong people, and those who go in are mostly -- according to you -- losers.

I have a different theory. I think that IBOs are normal people who have fallen prey to their own greed. I think most IBOs are doing their best. And thus, I think that the $115 income reflects a weakness with the "system". And I also think that the suggested "eight hours per week" the prospect is told is required is yet another deception.

Of course, either way -- again, according to your own argument -- most IBOs must be losers. Either because (according to you) most are lazy bums who can't even put in a lousy eight hours a week or so, or because (according to me) they're deceived, and are playing with a deck that's stacked against them.

And you too, of course.

This business isn't for everyone and I'm certainly glad someone as ignorant and stupid as you aren't out there building this thing because you would be another loser that quits.

Ummm... I just thought you argued that most the IBOs were "loser" IBOs who "quit" -- meaning there are lots of losers inside Quixtar, not out here.

And, uh, if I'm so "ignorant", then why haven't you refuted a single thing I've said here? Why does it look more like I'm correcting your inaccurate assertions?

Okay, I have been with BWW and Quixtar a couple years so I can give you some honest answers from someone with experience.

1. My sponsor is a couple I met from my church. They are great people. I knew them way before the business. They are q-12s and last year did about 70k. Pretty cool. Do they have the best house? No, in the business we call it delayed gratification. However, they did just buy a used Lexus and paid cash for the whole thing. They are great people. I'm sure some people had bad sponsors - for that I'm sorry. Can't blame BWW or the corporation for that.

2. Because I didn't do what BWW suggests for a while I just made a little money. But now I'm getting into a few hundred a month and it is growing now that I actually doing what are known as Eagle steps. That is a 9 step system that I have personally found works when you do it consistenly. You might think a few hundred isn't much - but my job will not give me that much of a raise for anything! So it's good cause my wife is pregnant and she won't have to work. I like that.

3. A lot of people bad mouth Rich Devos and the now deceased Jay Van Andel. Please don't do that. Both men are unbelievable men of charachter. Go to Forbes.com and see what STeve Forbes wrote about Jay Van Andel. It's right there on the site. Grab a book recently written by one of the guys from the Orlando Magic called: How to be like Rich Devos. In it you will find quotes praising Jay and especially Rich from: Gerald Ford, BIlly Graham, Campus Crusade's Bill Bright, Chuck Colson, and many other men and women who millions if not billions respect. That means something to me.

4. I have met many Diamonds in BWW and know a couple of them personally. Do I agree with everything all of them say? Of course not. But they are real people. And the two I know are really caring people. One of them I spend time with on a weekly basis, I'm not in his business - so he makes no money off of me, but he helps me and is so kind.

5. I understand that a lot of people are not happy. It happens for multiple reasons: maybe you had a bad sponsor - it happens, maybe it is harder than you were told - that happens, maybe you got online and read stuff that wasn't true - there is a lot of it about everything - not just this business. I don't know your situation. But please end the constant bashing. Not everyone is going to have your bad experience. So give peopel a chance. Put your zeal into something positive.

6. Please don't read this and start tearing my words apart. Respond all you want - but just know this was an honest entry. I simply shared from my experience and what i know.

thanks,
Paul

Please don't read this and start tearing my words apart.

:) Sorry bud, can't stop laughing. Do u want to discuss or not? Tear apart .... have different point of view.....argument...facts. Same thing, different wording, right? What is wrong with that?

Respond all you want - but just know this was an honest entry.

So rest are just lies? :)

I simply shared from my experience and what i know.

Ditto here.

A lot of people bad mouth Rich Devos and the now deceased Jay Van Andel. Please don't do that. Both men are unbelievable men of charachter.

Sympathy card :) Well amway was a good busienss when started. I mean catalogue shopping etc. was in then. Some say that they kinda stole nutrilite MLM but ok, lets not go there.

Tim and Imran are my personal heros

You People are ridiculous, Since when is 7.50 for a cd a ridiculously higher price? People pay 18.00 for music cds that have nothing good to say.
You are right; $7.5 is not a high price. But it is misleading. It becomes $60-80 / month quite easily only for tapes for a CORE IBO. No? I don't know if any one spend THAT much money on music CDs. They uh...borrow CDs from friends etc.

And music industry is a big industry. If music is not liked by listeners, it won't sell. Point is, users decide whether they want to buy the CD or not, usually after listening to it in TV etc. In Quixtar, you HAVE to be on standing order and buy the CDs you don't even know u would like / need it. Quality etc. won't matter much since ppl who are fooled don't have a choice and are doped not to object on these things.

Beside, to buy music CDs, I don't have to sign up any BSMAA etc. You don't know what it is, do u? I don't do this business, you do. So u should know more than me ;)

Some of my friends are real music junkie. Welcome to 21st century, here is what they do: Purchase a song / $1 via iTunes, and transfer it to mp3 player or burn a CD. Whole thing costs them $7 a CD. And not just that, that CD got passed and copied around. Perfectly legal, (as long as it's not shared on internet, thanks to RIAA).

Besides, if it's a fair price, why there are so many lawsuits regarding them?

http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_lawsuits.html

you who have nothing better to do than tear down peoples dreams and aspirations.

Are you telling me that by merely sharing my experience I have magical powers to steal their dreams? How weak those dreams are in the first place!

I guess when i decide to be broke and work until i am 83 then i will listen to you. Until then, why shouldnt i listen to people who have been financially free and retired since they were 23?

Hmm, first thought, why don't you do it then? You apparently read this blog and bothered to comment. Why? Why don't u follow your own advice? Why oh why?

Answer is apparent. Some of your prospects read this and other 'lighthouse' sites and decides not to participate in this fraud. So you put a tape talk here, utilizing this blog’s readability in a feeble attempt to prevent those prospects learning this scam. This above comment was for your IBOs and prospects right? Apparently you did exactly what you claimed not to do. Typical Quixtar leader :)

Also, if it were a true pyramid, you could never surpass your sponsors, and people have.

You need to be smacked from stupid stick. Seriously!

Pyramid = Money from top to bottom
Legit business = Money from out (clients) to Business.

So you get money only when some one at a lower level spends it. So does your top. And direction of the flow of money makes it a pyramid.

http://tinyurl.com/4zafv

Why would office max, disney stores, bass pro shops, IBM, circuit city, all be involved with something that wasnt legitimate?

I have seen ads of some of these above business on spam sites. Also, I bet at least some ppl at war with US uses IBM!! Heck, they use weapons made by US on US soldiers.

These above businesses will do business with ANY one who gives them business. They are just selling their merchandise via Quixtar. As simple as that.

Frankly, u can buy their merchandise cheaper from some where else.

Did you in all your wisdom catch something that over 400 corporations missed? Well then, congratulations to you and have fun working

Beautifully put!!! Employees of those 400 corporations are also working right, they are not IBOs?

That is where the money is: Being a partner of Quixtar and sell your items via them. Not to be an IBO and buy useless lotion and potion from Quixtar to get back $7.5 by overspending $400 every month.

What are your opinions about Quixtar and it’s ‘partners’ corporation employees? They are ‘broke losers’? Need to ‘get a life’?

Funny how you talk down to ‘employees’ and ppl who work till ‘83’ yet boast 400 corporation’s which are partner with Quixtar. Those corporations do have employees, FYI.

BWW in conjunction with QUIXTAR is the best business anyone can do!!
Listen to the ppl who are sucessfull rather than listening to people who are broke..have a dream and anything can be achievable in this world!!
BWW is the best...
we are receving a lot of profits since the day we have joined and life is just so amazing!!!
Guys dont listen to the losers..listen to the winners!!!

Hmm, did you just copy pasted a typical IBO response? I'm not even joking. It’s word to word.

- How much profits? Any specifics? And expenses?

- Who is broke? How do you know? How do you know that ppl who claim to be successful are indeed successful? Have u seen their financial statements? Have you seen the ppl you claim to be broke?

- Any one who has opinion different than yours is broke?

As a comment to any diamonds since Quixtar. Yes there have been. I would name a few, but I don't have their permission to put their name here. Sorry. As for tools and purchasin of products. You choose. I am sorry if you felt obligated to buy tools and products. None of us are obligated to do anything. However you are in a business. I buy for myelf and that is it. I don't buy for everyone else coming into my store. So wow I don't have to carry inventory, what a novel idea. If I don't build business I don't earn. So if then I spend more I become more in debt. Wow if I owned a inventory and did not sell it and bought mor I would be more in debt. If you have questions about the business do like most people do have a lawyer review the contract. Or stay out. There are alot of people who don't like Wal-Mart so they shop at target. Try postin a website against Wal-Mart, McDOnalds as soon as they find it you will be in court. I know Quixtar does not work for everybody. It did not work for me until I worked.

Uh doug, .....

As a comment to any diamonds since Quixtar. Yes there have been. I would name a few, but I don't have their permission to put their name here. Sorry.

No there aren't any. The one who DID not sign up at Amway. E.g. The ones who signed up after the launch of Quixtar.

Even if they are, what's wrong naming them??? See, this hidden secretive nature of business is a sign of a problem.

As for tools and purchasin of products. You choose. I am sorry if you felt obligated to buy tools and products. None of us are obligated to do anything.

Your comment might get deleted, this has been answered by Tim. I repeat his answer: If you buy a car without having full information and there is some major fault in car, e.g. it won't work for 99% of roads, would it be a right or not? Is it buyer's fault?

Same thing goes with frauds. People are asked to buy tools by things like "Tools are optional, so is success" means "your are really wasting ur time in Quixtar if you don't buy tools". What else does that mean?

However you are in a business. I buy for myelf and that is it. I don't buy for everyone else coming into my store. So wow I don't have to carry inventory, what a novel idea. If I don't build business I don't earn. So if then I spend more I become more in debt. Wow if I owned a inventory and did not sell it and bought more I would be more in debt.

I have done a business, still do. never had an inventory. Wal-mart don't carry an inventory either, FYI. They rent their shelve space. If it's sold, it's sold, if no, they didn't loose any money. Many other franchises have a return contracts with their suppliers. This 19th century stuff is boring.

How come so many Quixtar products and tools are on sale at eBay? Those poor ppl do want to get rid of that stuff. Which their evil upline won't take back.

- Honestly, for all the responses I've read. I laughed at most of the "problems" of this type of business. I also just watched the dateline video about some percieved ideas of quixtar.
- Maybe in in a different category, but I was told about all this before I got registered, and it was a decision "I" made, not one they maade for me. As I learned as a child, I am my own person. For those who left someone else decide for them, well you're complaining or upset because everything you do where you have to change yourself and take you from the 98% to the 2% of the population is going to take a lot of effort and will not be achieved by a weak minded person, or someone who can't make decidsions on their own.
- For those who got registered, It prob would be better if you did what they asked, "Be honest with yourself, and get a time back on our calendars to ask questions" Mybe my specific group is very different, but people don't quite because they are being mislead, they quite because they find out the truth of the american way.
- If you haven't figured it out all they top business individuals make a substantial amount of income off books, tapes and cd's. Honestly, I'm a published short story writer and I've made more on one project than most people would make in 3 months of working a "good" 9-5 job. One short story that was less than 4 pages long. for proof: I Hear A Symphony - "My first Kiss"
- Once you understand why and how people attain status and then mantain income, you will move on in life in stead of being jelous of someone's achievements.
- I want to say, all of the complaints or problmes people have, doesn't bother me. What does is that once they were registered they never took the time to read the first book they recieve. When you do register, you get a yellow book that explains all the profits of this type of business. Also, if you listen, they are telling you the only way to suceed in this type of business is to have "x" amount of organizations consistently and to have "x" amounts of book/tape/dvd orders. It states that at a certain level you aquire the ability to share profits (profit sharing).
- It bothers me to see websites full of people complaining about something that is their own fault. ALl types of business take time to create legal literature and no one reads it. It's not their fault, it's your own, unless you're blind( get someone to read it to you if you can't read still).
- Ultimately, realize that this business a long with tons of others are telling you, you have to do something else to create income because a job is good, but It doesn't pay when you stop working. Find something you can do to create more income outside of what you're doing until it surpasses the original income. Learn to manage your money and if you serve the masses very effieciently and better than anyone else, you will suceed.
- For those who don't think anything aside from a job will work, answer this for me....How are you doing at your job right now, and why did you end up looking at another opportunity to make more money? Are you greedy, looking to help someone else or jsut have more. Whatever the reason, make sure you satisfy that so you can discover what more you can really do once you suceed in your endeavor.

- This will help someon a lot.....
For those who are considering Quixtar or already in/quiting, understand these basics. It's a business of your own and you are supported by supplier(Quixtar) and the educations system (BWW) These are three seperate groups that all can generate profit. Just like the McDonalds example Im sure you've all seen. Bww makes money off anyone that purchases their support materials and at a certain level he starts to share his profits with you. Quixtar makes porfits off any purchases you do and at a certain level they share profits with you. Both of those are the reason this business works. Profit sharing, just like the GIANT Walmart. Walmart and all their companies and all of Sams' trucking business work together to provide the ultimate profit sharing access for the low end retail businesses. Sadly he does this and misleads you that he is cutting the price. Well if he pays 60% less than the average store, and sells it for a dollar or two less, you the customer loose. No one tries to knock him out of business for doing the same thing. The only difference is that he has no intentions of sharing his profits with anyoe else.
- Understand how these big business work and get information how this is alike, then make your decision for youself. Not what your upline may say or parents, relatives, or even people you respect. It's your life, choose wisely.

Not a single answer to any concern, just redirection and implying that it's ppls fault, model is perfect. Surprise surprise.

How about me? I read all the books, listened all the tapes, drove 40 km / day excusively for Quixtar? I must be doing something wrong right? So are the millions who have lost Billions. All those ppl did make at least minimum salary to survive. Yet they lost money in Quixtar. I don't think so that's where the fault was. Help me out here. Why is that?

Only thing I like is you get in after reading a lot. Thats great. You should keep reading. I know some IBOs who do and avoid doing so. After all, general population is where you get fresh meat. No?

Dateline was not biased. They ASKED Quixtar to participate. Quixtar refused. They can't stand open questions can they? There is no diamond ever in any TV show under Questions about Quixtar?

I was in this business for 30 months. Had one downline silver who has now quit. around 1000 people, who all have lost money. Downline platinum made -2000 in the platinum month. as he stockpiled books and tapes.

Then next 6 months he quit. The system thrives only on money from tapes, books, and SPEAKING CIRCUIT which have exhorbitant prices. there are 99% Emeralds who are faking it. Actually they are broke. Because they are under immense psycological fight. to leave or not to leave. The promise they have made to themselves and downline they know isn't going to be a reality. Hence, they keep on doing the dirty thing.

Its a cult. The leaders are like GODFATHER or DONS. only 100 out of 100,000 make money that too from speaking circuit and tapes. Rest all is fake.

The thing is even directs and Emeralds come to know of this after LOOONG time in business. The cardinal rules teach them to hide away from reality and speak only LIES thus brainwashing the mind and pushing themselves into psycological fight. The leaders then take advantage of this and get out more money from people's pockets.

These are like conmen who claim themselves to be spiritual gurus and thug people.

The whole system etc is nonsense. Its the biggest scam on the planet. Surely the longest one.

Blacksmurf:

It bothers me to see websites full of people complaining about something that is their own fault.

They're not complaining -- they're trying to share their experience, and warn other people against repeating their mistake of getting involved with Quixtar. Hopefully, other people will be smart enough to learn from their experiences.

You should consider that.

And Quixtar is always a mistake. 99% of the time, it's unprofitable. But, as best I can see, it's always unethical.

ALl types of business take time to create legal literature and no one reads it. It's not their fault, it's your own, unless you're blind (get someone to read it to you if you can't read still).

Your core argument is hilarious: Since the failures in Quixtar were preventable, by just doing some basic research, the people who signed up and didn't do it are at fault. More importantly, the people who signed them up (you, it appears), aren't.

That would be hilarious, if it wasn't so morally bankrupt. Most scams take advantage of the greed of the victim. Every confidence man justifies his con on the basis that his victims are greedy, stupid, or both. We'll, he's half right: Their greed and stupidity doesn't mean he isn't also greedy and/or stupid, much less morally responsible for what he's doing.

Look, I figured out this was a scam without even getting into it, so I could preach all day to any IBO. Including to you, who can't figure out there are more important things in life than making money, and that we'll each be held accountable some day.

Quixtar tends to prey on those who don't have any basic business or legal acumen. That's it's whole pitch: "You can't build a business yourself! That's much too complicated! Trust us! We'll do it for you!" And then here you sit, all smug that such people are what they are. Why not just rob the lame and then justify yourself by pointing out they weren't very good at physical self-defense?

I love these threads. They're a veritable zoo of self-justifying behavior patterns.

For those who don't think anything aside from a job will work, answer this for me....How are you doing at your job right now, and why did you end up looking at another opportunity to make more money? Are you greedy, looking to help someone else or jsut have more. Whatever the reason, make sure you satisfy that so you can discover what more you can really do once you suceed in your endeavor

Duh! This is the dumbest argument (not that it doesn't work on some people -- you buy it, apparently). Tell people their job is no good, but then don't show that Quixtar is any better.

Look, if a guy is making $14 per hour, maybe he's not getting ahead as fast as he wants. So his income will rely on, instead ... a "system" which pays, on average less than minimum wage? Where only a tiny fraction make even $15k a year - -- before profit, and not counting the credit-card debt they racked up in the process?

Hah!

Yes, of course, that makes perfect sense. Thanks for explaining it that way.

Job mentality will result in poor business habits and evetually break you.

What a stupid statement! Look at the top CEOs and founders of companies. What do they do? Oh yes, right... they get up in the morning, they get in their car, they drive to work. They work all day, they report to people (board members, customers, banks, etc.), they are accountable, and then they go home at night to their families. They do it again the next day.

What losers!

Many of them rose up through the ranks working another "job" before they got the top one or started a competiting business -- gaining this something called "business experience", something which -- believe it or not -- doesn't come from cheering at a meeting, buying over-priced soap, and telling people a story you heard on a tape.

Profit sharing, just like the GIANT Walmart. Walmart and all their companies ... understand how these big business work...

Yes, you really should.

The kind of profit-sharing you're referring to a direct, downline payment, completely the opposite of the way Quixtar works.

In a real business, the money flows in from this HUGE entity called the "customer", who is OUTSIDE the organization. This money goes to the top, where it goes DOWN the "pyramid" and to the stock-holders -- and everyone, even the lowest-ranking members, shows a PROFIT.

In a profit-sharing program, the employees are also stock-holders, so have an incentive to do there work in a way which increases that stock's value.

In Quixtar, there is no external customer at all, the customer is INSIDE the organization, the money flow UP the pyramid, and the lowest ranking members will always show a net LOSS.

That you cannot tell the difference between these two nearly completely opposite arrangements indicates you're in no position to be handing out business advice. Yes, people should be making their own decisions and choosing wisely. And I'd advise them not to take advice from people who cannot tell the difference between a negative-sum game (Quixtar) and a win/win situation (business).

This thread is # 1 on Google, most popular search engine.

Oh, now that is hilarious, considering it's the shortest Quixtar-related article on this blog, with almost no content, except a link elsewhere.

Just goes to show what happens when people -- whether you agree or disagree with them -- are allowed to speak their minds in an open forum. Allowing all viewpoints to compete for mindshare is a wonderful thing.

And I want to say, again, thank you Imran, for all the things you're trying to do to help people, via this blog and many others.

According to new Achieve Magazine, special addition, there are a lot of new pins. BUT a lot of old pins gone. Completely wiped!

Here is my theory. (since hardly any data come out of Quixtar) ppl used to sign up slow but stayed in longer. Prices were better and tool push was not that much. Back in bad ol' Amway.

Now these all factors have increased. Sponsoring efforts are quite much, but so is attrition.

Anyway I have not dismissed the thought of joining it.I have collected a questionaire of about 30 questions,mainly browsing sites like yours. I am meeting that sponsoring guy today to get my questions answere. If answerd correctly and honestly,I am planning to buy their products for a month to see if that comes to my satisfaction in terms of price and quality and then I will decide on it whether I should decide in favor or not.

Hi, can you do every one a great favour? Can you please post those answers here as well so every one could see?

There is not a single Diamond speaking about Quixtar in an open forum. Not a single one! It'll be great to see those honest answers. Seriously.

EVERYONE KNOWS ABOUT IT!!!!!

You got it Kita. But it's not the major problem. It is sure a symptom of a shady business. Why on earth would a successful company change its name? I know how sensitive my company is about brand recognition. My previous office changed its names but it was more of merger thing. It displayed for years "X inc. formerly known as: old name"

Problem is this whole MLM model.

Where is the money in MLM? Top!
Top is set when MLM is launched. After that it's an uphill battle.

Later parasites like BWW etc. start selling motivational crap etc. But original problem remains the same. Which is: MLM is not a good business model as it goes against basic mathematics and basic economics.

A person, who calls himself as 'Jona's Dad'

http://quixtarcriminals.blogspot.com/

Well, I am not here to take either side, but I am here to say that fighting never solves anything. I am actually working in the bww system. I do beleive that anyone can make money in the bww quixtar system. I also beleive that anyone can make money outside of the bww quixtar system. But let me at least tell you this much about the bww quixtar team that I work with. You are not forced to buy anything, you are not forced to sell anything, you are not forced and/or required to do anything. But just as the boss you work for, (unless of course you yourself are a business owner)if you do not sell your services hours for dollars at your job, soon you will not have one. Within the bww quixtar system there are many leaders that are willing to serve their team and help others make money. This to me is a winning system. And there are winning systems outside of bww quixtar. Let me pose this question... When was the last time your boss said to you, "How can I help you make more money? Is there anything that you need from me to support your dreams, whatever they may be?" Well like I said, I am not here to convince anyone of anything. Just realize that arguing will lead to only more arguing.
Maybe constructive conversation would work.

This to me is a winning system. And there are winning systems outside of bww quixtar.

Sir, I see two questions: (1) How profitable is whatever you're doing expected to be, and (2) is it ethical? Those might be good questions to address, rather than looking to one's subjective feelings about "winning."

Let me pose this question... When was the last time your boss said to you, "How can I help you make more money?

This is probably a fairly common conservation in every sales-related profession.

It is also the entire reason I am having this conservation with Quixtar IBOs. I want to help them make more money, on average, and to do so ethically.

Just realize that arguing will lead to only more arguing. Maybe constructive conversation would work.

With all due respect to everybody that joins this Pyramid schemes Opportunities. Spend more time selling your products then trying to recruit. Can you all do that? This is becoming a hassle I hate to give out phone numbers to new friends because they might be in quickstar. If this is a true retail business then stop picking people from wal mart, Target or the Mall. Stop saying this will change your life for good. Focus on your life and your business. I guarantee that in the seminar they focus more on how to recruit then how to sell there products. grr people I rather flip a burger and live then join this lame as pyramid schemes

Has anyone made the income promised? All I want is for one person to put their money where their mouth is. I see a some good products on Quixtar, but no one sells the products they ony sell the business. You can't make money without moving product. ????? My other beef is in the fact that if it were truly a good business why would just any joe blow make a good partner. I am not giving away my business ideas to any of you and will not partner with just anyone.

Has anyone made the income promised? All I want is for one person to put their money where their mouth is.

Top IBOs do pretty well, I hear. The point isn't that nobody wins -- the problem is that the few winners are created from many more losers. The money to make the "winner" is simply transferred from many losers, who end up with a shortfall for their efforts.

My other beef is in the fact that if it were truly a good business why would just any joe blow make a good partner.

Here is a man with intelligence and common sense. Sound too good to be true? Can't figure out how so many average people are supposed to just roll in the money? Right: that's a hint!

i was approached today. It is BS. He said that he knew me from somewhere and conveniently had a lot in common with me. I worked in a restaurant, he worked in a restaurant, I watched a certain show... so did he, I am a business major, and so was he. He then stated that he owned his own internet business. I know he is lieng, because obviously it isnt his own. the top people in this company make money by selling products to affiliates to sell, since the products wouldnt even sell on the real market. So each affiliate gets stuck with a crapload of useless products. Yes, you might be able to somehow sell these prodcuts to family, friends, and maybe even some strangers. But for the most part you are buying products from them that are virtually impossible to sell. If you recruit a ton of members, then yes, maybe you will make a few bucks. YOU WILL NOT GET RICH! and just think of all the innocent, naive people that you are screwing over for a few bucks. Its just not worth it.

I just wanted to comment on this because I found it incredibly sad:

this is to everybody and their negative opinions. i hope all of you enjoy your average life. because that is all you will be, average. so enjoy it!

What is this person most afraid of? Being average. How do we know? Because it's the worst insult they can think of to level against the people they see as their enemies.

And how do they seek to be "not average"? Why, join Quixtar, of course. Everyone outside the group, or who opposes the group, is "average", and only those inside are "above average".

So, do they sit down and think about the things being said here? Do they ponder whether Quixtar is profitable or ethical? Do they consider whether people are trying to help them avoid a hurtful trap?

No. They see someone opposed to it, and run away as quickly as possible, without thinking. Because they really don't want to know that their "dream" of being non-average won't be achieved though Quixtar.

That's just so sad.

Hey You People

Before you demean something, please check the credibility. BWW trains you for a positive mental attitude and a fighting spirit. To get into this business you do not need a large investment. You have to register as a business owner. Ask yourself a simple question. If you have your own business, would you not promote it? If this is a pyramid scheme, what is there at your workplace?
Job security is a joke. I would really like to hear from some people who say that they have lost their shirt on this business. they must have registered themselves and done nothing, hoping that someone would knock their doors, begging to be registered.
comeon people, wake up. The people who say that this is bad, what else do you have to offer?

Ok Ravi, What is the definition of pyramid?

I do have something to offer. In fact you already have it. "The ultimate gift".

Ravi-

From your post, I can only assume that you are suggesting that a real world J.O.B. is a pyramid. The difference betweeen the Quixtar pyramid and a corporate org-chart is that in a real world business the CEO isn't promising all of his employees that they will someday be CEOs, AND the employees aren't all assuming this either.

As for loosing my shirt, I think that would have been better. I lost my faith in friends and family in the BWW system who lied to me when I joined, got me to sign documents that were misrepresented, and who are still loosing their own shirts five years later. These are people who are spending thousands of dollars a year and receiving close to nothing in return. What's your response to that, Ravi?

Oh, let me guess. It's something like, your situation is unique. My line of sponsorship is above reproach and I'll be making millions soon because of the teaching of my upline. Am I close?

Jason

To each his own.

We were taught, not by intent, that to get a good education followed a secure job is a given, based on what our fathers did. This worked in the industrial age when people wanted to come out of the fields to the factories and move on up there. No back breaking work, paycheck at end of week and no reponsibility. Do not like the job, go look for another one.

But the times are different now. No job security even in countries like Japan, where people used to work in 1 company till they retired.
Look at what's happening now. Pension plans are taken away. Think of people who have retired from working 40 yrs and now just subsisting on their retirement funds and now what happens? nothing from now on.

This continent was built on entrepreneurs and small businesses. people came over early last century for making a better life, not a better job. and they did.
Until the major corporations stepped in and took away the corner stores, the small grain stores etc, and the same people could not compete with the big stores and went to work there. Look at what happened in Canada. Air Canada took over CP airlines promising its employees that they will not lose their jobs. one year later they were all out. Same with American Airlines when they took over TWA. In the US, 401k, was a joke. it benefitted only the tope management of any corporation. How maney people sunk their life saving in 401k and lost it outright. Think Enron and Worldtel and Nortel, friends.
Where is the corporate loyalty? Your boss is not interested in your future, only in his future. your supervisor does not want you to learn everything since once you do, his job is at stake. There is only so much space at the top and to get there, you have to kill, curse, backstab and play politics and once and if you get there, the people below you are going to do the same to you.

If you talk education, is it not a big business now? Can your educational organisation guarantee you a job at the pay level they promised you?
Is UCLA not a profit making organisation now? So what is wrong with BWW teaching its people? at least it allows only the people who acheived something to talk. and buying tapes and books is optional, not mandatory as in universities and they do not change the syllabus every second semester to enable them to sell more books.

I am not saying it is for everyone. Each of us is unique. We have our own strengths and weaknesses. some fail and some win. that is life. Some people live and the others survive.
Up to you what you want to do. This organisation just shows that there is a choice you CAN make. it is up to you whether you want to. You can get out anytime you want to. This is not Scientology. No one can persuade you to do something against your wish.

All I can say is this, in this world, to get ahead, you have to be in business for yourself. I do not say this business. any business. Being an employee just pays the bills, it does not pay for your life. If you can find a business with this sort of investment of time and money, go ahead and do it. Godspeed!!!

Cami,

I label it a scam because it IS ONE, not because I couldn't do it. I never wanted to do it in the first place. I asked if this was Amway. I was told no. I asked if this was Amway a second time. I was told no. This was my family! My friends! I was lied to, and not just about this!

I am perfectly happy with my Job. I can honestly say that this is my dream job and would not trade it for anything that any person could offer me. I'm making an agreeable income (50K/year + benefits) and my family is quite happy. My other family and friends are still in this 'opportunity' as it is called and after five years of being core are making squat!

By the way Cami, you have no Idea what a pyramid scam is. Read the Federal Trade Commissions definition of a Pyramid scam and you will see that it is not what you described.

I'm curious though about this stat I always hear thrown out by IBOs that 80 year olds are still working. I can think of maybe one person (and I'm not sure how old he is) who works. The dude drives a Corvette and is happily flirting with the ladies everytime I see him. I'm pretty sure he's not working because he needs the cash. I think he likes the company.

In a pyramid you can never make more money than the person above you. The top person makes the most.

This may be a characteristic of pyramid, but it is not a definition of pyramid.

I repeat my question again, Ravi and Cami. What is a pyramid?

I never cease to be amazed at pro-Quixtar people who spout off apocryphal retirement "statistics" like they are irrefuatble fact.

Ravi states,

In the US, 401k, was a joke. it benefitted only the tope management of any corporation. How maney people sunk their life saving in 401k and lost it outright. Think Enron and Worldtel and Nortel, friends

You heard it here first, everybody. Don't throw your money away in a 401(k) program! It's all a big scam! Those statements I get every quarter telling me what my account balance has grown to are just a lie!

Ravi, I am going to help you sound just a tiny bit less ignorant the next time you post this drivel somewhere. The company name was WorldCom, not Worldtel. Also, people put their savings in a 401(k) plan, not "put their life savings in 401k". Finally, do not refer a 401(k) plan in past tense. They are very prevalent.

Cami writes,

Plus I work for myself. So use your brain. If your brain can't comprehend it, sorry, you'll be working for the rest of your life 40 hours a week. Have fun. I'll be spending that time with my family.

How do you get to spend time with your family when you are out prospecting and showing plans 5 nights a week and going to weekend-long functions once a month? You'll have to explain that one to me.

I got back from lunch a little while ago. My company is only a half mile away from Lake Michigan. When the weather is nice I eat my lunch down at the beach. I saw my former co-worker and (current) friend relaxing down there. He retired last year at age 53. Yes, Cami, that's right. He is 53 and he doesn't have to work. He didn't own his own business. He worked at the same company as a "wage slave" for 31 years. He worked hard, saved his money, cashed out a lot of equity in the house he built, and got his freedom. And he's never heard of Quixtar. Amazing, isn't it?

New visitor here - and love the site. Quick response to Cami here.

First, the irony is that anyone that is actively building their business would a) never be on this site checking out all of the negative, since your upline has unquestionably discredited the internet as a source of any qualified information, and b) never be speaking about people as negatively as you do, for negative thoughts are strictly forbidden (just pop in any one of the 400 CD's to remind you of the singular message that you are to feed yourself).

So Cami, if you spend much time on this site, you are as good as gone from your Quixtar business - I guarantee it.

Regarding the laziness of all of America, hopelessly working like a slave for the rest of our lives - FYI historically .0007% of all IBO's achieve Diamond level or above (per Quixtar-approved business plan flipchart). Thus, at that next Function that you attend, if there are 10,000 people there, you'll be in the presence of approximately seven Diamonds. The other 9,993 people are all going to end up as lazy losers just like us. You see, virtually everyone fails in Amway/Quixtar - except YOU, says your upline.

For such a positive organization, that is quite a bleak picture of the world, wouldn't you agree?

Educated responses that discuss factual data are welcomed. God bless you all.

Since no IBO is stepping up, here was my question:

What is pyramid?

And org. structure is NOT pyramid.

"You can't make more money than ur boss thus ur office is pyramid" is not pyramid. I have made more money than my boss many times. When firm not doing good, top management was were waiving their pays.

Making more money than sponsor thus Quixtar is not a pyramid is BS as well.

Here is the pyramid definition:

"Majority of money paid to participants coming from the participants. More precisely, participants at lower level pay money which is move upward"

Money from bottom to top paid mostly by participant is pyramid. FTC says if 50% bonuses come from participants itself, it's pyramid. Product or not.

In jobs I hade, money came from out to in. Clients paid for some products and services and we employees were paid depending on our positions.

Here is a good neural read:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme

in 1979 FTC ruling against Amway, Amway got away because of some retailing lines. (Walter Bass?)

But Amway was found guilty of making income claims. Since then they're required to state average IBO income. Why would the give the pathetic $115 / month figure?

And FTC didn't approve Amway. It in fact found itguilty on some accounts and make it state the average earnings. Spouting "This business is approved by FTC" originated from there. How cute ;)

"Work is the replacement of luck"
I love this sentence of "BWW"

it can be taken as a very basic business principle : buying and selling.

like somebody here has said, it doesn't involved paying any upline or whoever above. just small fee to join then if you so wish, you can just choose to ignore your upline(s). you then buy products that you need to use everyday anyway. the prices reasonable and many if not most are rather good.
for some quick buck, you can try sell some stuffs. they have thousands of stuffs. don't tell me you can't even find one thing that you can sell to someone you know who needs it.its just the basic of buying and selling. We buy with Distributor price and sell in retail price. then if the money flow is good, why stop? in the meantime, you'd still need to buy the household or personal necessities.
then if you so wish and choose, you can just share this money making way with the person you loves or knows then teach him/her to do the same. For free.

whats so bad about that?

don't tell me you can't even find one thing that you can sell to someone you know who needs it.

I can't!

Virtually all items are available in wal-mart, much cheaper and far easier to get, in the ...drum roll please......SAME DAY

whats so bad about that?

You answered it urself

in the meantime, you'd still need to buy the household or personal necessities.

so u buy expensive stuff too. Oh wait, u r the only one buying, and others who like u r trying to build the business. Customers don't. u all are spending money and only top few make any.

What's the definition of pyramid again?

WOW! how are you doing every body? I like this "System", I think there is no other better business like "Amway", and this "System", both of them are the unique, they are the greatest business opportunity in all over the world.

I will stay this system forever.

imran,

if you can't even find one thing that you can sell to somebody out of thousands of thingy,then, its you who don't have an ounce of business acumen. not Amways or Quixstar or whoever faults.its you. you yourself have admitted it. you just can't!

we consumers have been living with the mentality of buying cheap instead of buying smart. all are we looking for is CHEAP. even for things that can be harmful to our health. most of us don't really gives two hoot of what we put in our body,on our skin etc...all we care about is whether the products is cheaper and if we can find cheaper still,we'd buy it. thats the general mentality.why people drives Merc or BMW or what ever luxury cars when a Toyota or Mazda will do to bring you from point A to B?its the value attached to it.you pay for its comfortability,its safety and the status the brands carry with it.

but not everybody is like that. and thats when this kind of products comes in. sure,it costs slightly but certainly not overly expensive compared to your run-of-the mill products you can get from wal-mart or whatever.but,you do get what youre paying for.do you even have an ounce of knowledge of what kind of ingredients that goes into your shampoo,soaps,toothpaste etc...?it can be rather scary.what we're offering here is an alternative to normal buying habit. if you insist in buying cheap,by all means.its your choice.its a free country.but,at least, if you buy from Amway, you do get some of your money back even if you don't sell anything. does wal-mart or any other so called giant stores have that kind of policy?
when you joined, it becomes your own business so its all up to you how you want to run it. BWW or whatever is just an option. you can choose to run it in your own way within the rules and regulations of Quixstar or Amway.
you said that consumers don't use or don't consume this kind of products. thats,i'm afraid sir, its a blatant generalisation. take this product for example: Leather and vinyl cleaner. after a demo in their shop,i have managed in securing a substantial order of this product from them since they were so impressed by what it can do to their vinyl&leather products. all it takes is a smart thinking and strategy on how to market this products. and if you don't have that in you or youre just too lazy to use your brain,then by all means, continue working under somebody else. its your choice. its not for those who don't have even a miligram of business acumen and i believe this is not a talent but just a smart thinking.

i don't go around 'sneaking' up on people hoping to prospect them.
its a private franchise,you understand?so if you make good money in this biz,wouldn't you want to share it with somebody you loves,knows or like if they need help financially? how the pyramid scheme comes into this equation?

its like the old saying, "you don't just give a fish for they woud just eat it but you teach them how to fish"

if you can't even find one thing that you can sell to somebody out of thousands of thingy,then, its you who don't have an ounce of business acumen. not Amways or Quixstar or whoever faults.its you. you yourself have admitted it. you just can't!

First of all, you are downplaying it big time. Its misleading. Let’s get the full picture:

What I exactly don't understand? Care to be specific? Funny how you didn't answer any single assertion yet say I don't understand and thus close minded. Do I hear cult?

Difference: Few will be making by giving a product that has no real value, e.g. motivation. Thus others lose money.

go and check the price of many good brands of water filter out there and compare it with Amways WTS.

You did NOT read what I posted did you?

http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com/2005/06/espring-vs-aquasana.html

And how about that one

http://www.waterfiltercomparisons.com/Water_Filter_Comparison_Matrix.cfm

According to that, In US aquasana is better than eSpring, and 3 times cheaper.

I got a good deal up here, and according to my calculations, including client cost, shipping for both, eSpring is 10 times cheaper.

Glister is a good toothpaste, but i can't it's not very convenient to get it, is it?

Ok, eCommerce, wanna talk about it? Name the product sold mostly via eCommerce? (porn, and software)

you'd also choose to ignore many of the points i've posted. but never mind.

Thats lame. It's all up here my man!

Oops, typo, eSpring 10 times expensive than aquasana.

;)

I googled the whole bww scam and eventually found my way onto this site. I'm sure thousands of people have done the same thing I did after being pitched the whole Quixtar bit.

I'm sure that most people who visit this blog are not going to get sucked in.

I'm not going to return again so I don't know if y'all would like to respond to my post.

I just wanted to thank Tim, Imran, and Prabhu for the priceless service they're providing to the uninformed people who come to this site.

thanks again,
k

Thanks to Tim buddy, seriously, the dialogue you'll find here is no where. Reason being Quixtar attracts / converts people to republican side, and Tim blog is quiet popular among them. (I'm no republican but I'm addicted to it)

And when some God loving, honoring Christian values, exposing leftist media lies, a perfect american opens a fresh can of ass whooping on this 'bidness', Ouch! Its no liberal media bashing Quixtar. Its a goody good person.

And there are some things funny too.

- only 5% posts are about Quixtar
- Your hand got tired from scrolling?

BWW has never claimed to be the cheapest source.

No one is disputing that, of course.

All it says is that if you buy from yourself (Quixtar as an IBO)

Buy from yourself without retail is illegal, and against Quixtar own rules.

http://www.amquix.info/quixtar_70_percent_rule_explained.html

you can save from the middleman, at the same time make money.

Wrong. Quixtar pays 3% bonus? 25% volume and add retail markup?

Wal-Mart pays 18-20% to middle man, and constantly force it's supplier to cut prices to give cheaper to customer.

If everyone cooperates, everyone can be successful.

No. It's against mathematics. Explain how?

Skepticism and jealousy isn't going to get anyone anywhere.

Agreed. Blind faith is doing any good either.

I'm neither skeptical nor jealous.

Hello Champions,

Going thru all the comments seemed to be wasting time.If you do some constructive work you can do better in your life.When you think about starting a business you must know onething that we have to invest in tools.After finishing MBBS in India by spending around 10 lakh rupees we have to buy a lot of tools for day today work.

I`m in Amway and BWW System and earning 6 figure income every month,visiting abroad every year with my wife,like honey moon trip,free of charge.

See,one`s success depends on his initiative,hard work,vision,desire and dreams.There is nothing like tools are costly.If you don`t like Amway or Britt system get out of it.You are USELESS TO DO BUSINESS.You should work for some oneelse to fulfil others dreams.

No business in this world has 100% success ratio.Some will be successful and some will loose even after investing huge amount.In Amway it is not like that.Investment is only peanut.

Don`t kill a very good concept like Network Marketing business which is helping a lot of people.

DSP,

NONE of the anti-Quixtar people have said that NO ONE gets rich from Scamway/Quixtar. There will always be a small number of people that make wild profits from a pyramid scheme. This is the nature of the beast. However, the VAST MAJORITY of people will slave at the bottom of the pyramid while sending their money upstream to the fat cats on top. Quixtar people would be better off flipping hamburgers at McDonalds.

"Going thru all the comments seemed to be wasting time."

Translation: You skimmed the topic and were unable to logically refute the case against Scamway/Quixtar.

Why not lay down some concrete facts instead of generic repetitions of pro-Quixtar touchy-feely motivation propaganda?

Imran and Tim have a good handle on the topic. Engage them. Of course, you might want to read a topic before diving in.

DSP> Don`t kill a very good concept like Network Marketing business which is helping a lot of people.

Imran> By disussing it we are killing it? It is killing itself.

What is the average income of an MBBS doctor in India? What is an average IBO income?

Tim,

I really enjoyed your arguments, you remind me of the very rare great debaters in this world who actually use facts to back up their opinions.
I recently went to a free seminar from BWW/Quixtar and was very skeptical, but I do admit they do make it sound good. As a licensed P.I. I always investigate into things I am not sure of, it must be the cynicism of the job.

One observation I did notice was the lack of professional people other than myself. I saw a lot of married couples there and military. This made me believe they were targeting a certain group. The guest speaker was really good and told us that in five years we would be retired or as they say "seeing blue skies". I really have to say that I am gald I read these comments from both sides, because now I feel more informed for future encounters. I also heard that Quixtar was under investigation from the FBI and the IRS. If we really want to talk about pyramid schemes lets look at social security.

Take care look forward to a response.

Oh yea, too all you dummies who think it's a scam or whatever retarded comments you make, I guess Barnes & Noble, Bass Pro Shops, Circuit City, Office Max, Nike, Rebock, Whirlpool, Jockey, KB Toys, etc. Oh wait yea Ace Hardware just joined recently to Quixtar. Perhaps they all thought it was a good idea and not a scam, perhaps they wouldnt tarnish their image on a scam. Yea, I'm sure you dummies know more about business than those about those large corporate businesses. Oh and by the way, I have many other physicians as friends who are profitable in this business. And one more thing to point out, Wal-Mart has 15,000 negative websites and thousands of lawsuits per month. But it looks like you dummies need to post more stuff about Wal-Mart and how evil they are, and how much they scam people and what-not. Yes and it is 50 Cents to make a CD and $8.00 to buy one in the BWW organization. So I guess you morons are too dumb and end up buying music CD's for for $14-$16. Hey it costs 2X as much to buy a non-learning music CD but I dont hear you idiots complain? Oh yea and for those of you who talk about Quixtar being a scam or whatever. I own 2 businesses, a Spine rehab practice and my Quixtar business. And I guess you guys complain because it's fact, you are broke. Plain and simple. Large corporate business like Wal-Mart & Quixtar will continue to make money while you stay broke. Hah I bet none of you complainers own a business. I own a conventional business and a multi-level marketing business so I know both well. I know none of you complainers have the guts to own a conventional business, which is why you cry. Whiners and babies. WAHHHHHH! I can't make money so I have to down a business that does. WAHAAAAH. Seriously, that's exactly what you sound like. Hah you guys make me laugh. Keep posting I love looking at what morons have to say from time to time to relieve my stress from work.

Coming straight from Quixtar Text Book. Are you featured on following link as well?

http://www.webraw.com/quixtar/archives/2005/08/monday_reader_mail_54.php

You IBOs sound like a broken record.

Every point you made is already answered in this blog. And the link I posted. Did you read before posting? Looks like you all IBOs copy paste.

My favourite:

And I guess you guys complain because it's fact, you are broke. Plain and simple.

I make 400 K / month and I work one hour a day. It’s a fact.

Yes and it is 50 Cents to make a CD and $8.00 to buy one in the BWW organization. So I guess you morons are too dumb and end up buying music CD's for $14-$16.

I don't buy $14 CD. I have bought total 3 songs, each 99 cents from iTunes.

Looks like you'll run away soon. People who make posts like you always do. If you don't, and want to make a good discussion (which is not very common for IBOs) care to answer these questions? I answered yours.

1) How long you've been in Quixtar?

2) How much do you spend on learning Quixtar, on tools, tapes, CD, functions?

3) What was your last bonus cheque?

I have a few questions on how BWW works.

Do they pay a fee each month?
How much does it cost to join?
How much per CD?
Is there profit sharing?

What type of structure do they build?

Could someone explain more about it.
Thanks!

Heres what happend....
My friend in virgina(Just moved down there a month ago) signed into this organization two weeks ago and he wanted to know about conventions cause he said they were "Busting his balls about attending" about attending the convention, they also said if he didn't attend he would fail.

Please tell me more about this organization
Thanks!

Stephan, you need to go to amquix.info. It may take some time, but worth reading.

Briefly, Quixtar is Amway. A multilevel Marketing Company.

BWW is one of the motivational organizations, who motivates Quixtar folks to do Quixtar. And sell them tapes, functions, books and other crap.

Once you go to very Top, you get a lot of money from these tapes.

E.g. Cost of producing a tape (A tape is just a recording of a already profitable seminar) = $0.5

Cost: $10.

A lot of profit. Profit is not shared. Top ppl make lots. Rank and File lose.

Well, this 'job' is not for every body, but some one with motivation and drive can sure make even more than me. Figures are in dollars, but it can be in Euros for you. It all depends on you. As a matter of fact, I'm screening some sharp and ambitious people like to become my business partner. I'm expanding it in your area.

I can not tell you company name yet. You don't qualify for it. However, there is a weekend seminar in Yukon. Tickets are $100 / person. You have to bring your spouse too. I and my senior partners will be sharing all the secrets of our success. You should book a hotel room using a code I give you. (That makes me money too, but I won't tell you).

In the seminar, food is available (@ $4 / can of coke, $2 / donut. I make money there too)

Once you have attended the seminar, you and I will sit together and immediately get started.

Imran, looks like your FT job is posting negative comments to this and other sites and could be the reason why you are poor and angry. Ignorance seems to be the true mark of why you are this way. FYI...no one has ever become successful by complaining and putting others down. I truly feel really sorry for you.

Perhaps one day, if you are lucky enough, you can take some notes from a successful person and apply it to your life. Maybe then you will change your attitude and make something of yourself.

Or you shut us all up and post your tax return to this site so you can show us what you are really made of. My guess is that it will be quite laughable and we would all get much enjoyment out of it.

I actually read the whole blog. I've actually done the research unlike most people on the blog I assume. Now one of the biggest misconceptions is that quixtar is responsible for the IBO's that make faulty promises. The truth is that there are alot of conpeople out there that con people into believing that its easy to become rich in quixtar and amway and there are also people that make more money in selling merchandise than making money selling products. Blame the people making claims and don't blame the tool they use to con people. Now if you actually check the quixtar website try and find anywhere on that site that says buy tapes, books and attend conferences. When you want info go to the source and do your research.

Looks like I pressed some right buttons :D

I'm neither poor nor angry. I am like Quixtar: 'Debt free' and 'still legal'.

u r reading books and taking notes. How is that working for ya?

I like making fun of you stupid brainwashed people. And you IBOs never cease to amaze me.

What other sites are you referring to btw?

Let me try answering you in Tim's stlye:

"Dear anonymous coward. You didn't argue with the points I raised. Instead so what every other IBO does. Ad hominum personal attacks".

My Tax return. good one. I may post it. After all, I'm offering a business opportunity. Oh wait, No one in Quixtar is willing to do so. Hmmmm. I shouldn't do that if I want to be as 'successful' like them. Apparently, they are the only one who has a chance of 'success'. Instead, let me have an arsenal of insults ready for any one who dares to ask it.

And you’re right. It is my FT job to post comments. Pays well! Wanna do it?

Now one of the biggest misconceptions is that quixtar is responsible for the IBO's that make faulty promises.

What does Quixtar do about it? It is a problem for them, isn't it?

I joined Quixtar last month and am now making an extra 2500 every month because i stopped buying from wal-mart and started buying from my own business and told some people about it as well. BWW and Q* both work but some people haven't got the drive it takes to make it through the tough stages of the business. It's not a get rich quick scheme because you don't get rich quick unless you work your ass off, it's not a pyramid scheme because there is no registratiopn fee nor do you make money off other people nor do you make money simply by reffering other people. The business works and makes sense and dollars for those who utilize it properly.

Feel free to ask me any questions you have regarding the integrity of the system.

Tristan
t.urquhart@avenuerhodes.com

Tristan,

You are full of fertilizer. What on Earth were you buying from Wal-Mart that would allow you to switch to Quixtar and 'make' $2500 a month? If your story is true, you are merely spending less and not 'making' money. As for telling a few people, you merely conned a few suckers.

Your claim to be making 'big' money is meaningless. The criticisms posted in here by Imran and Tim never say that it is impossible to make money at Quixtar. They specifically point out that a small number will make decent money from Quixtar. However, they also point out that the vast majority will make more money flipping hamburgers.

Quixtar can be mathematically proven to be a rigged game built for the few that get in early.

I find it pretty sad that everyone here has been pitching the same information for over year now.

Comenting back some years worth of post... How is the market saturated when it hasn't even hit 10% market penetration. Meaning, more the 90% of the US Economy is UNSATURATED. You said only those who jump on board early will make money and that everyone after that will be screwed... Quite frankly, the market place is not saturated.

Second off, there was mentioning of how no one has gone diamond since 1999 that WASN'T in it since Amway. Well, it is a 5 year plan, and diamondship is givin in September Every year. This being the sixth year, several people went diamond this year. My mentor, Dave Dassault went Diamond last weekend. My Friend is making a few hundred - not much, but a start. His up-line, is making about 50,000$'s a year however. I am still pretty new to the business, and I havenever bought a Book or a CD. (You are told you don't have to). However, I have seen people suceed. And until market penetration hits 10%, based on S-curve economics, anyone in the system can benefit. After E-Commerce reaches a market penetration of 10% it will quickly move through to 90%, and then slow down again. Naturally, those in at the 10% mark will benefit the most, those in during Market Penetration will benefit the least. However, those that get in after penetration hits 90% probably won't make a dime.

The thing I find sad, is that it really is a good business oppurtunity for people that seriously dedicate time to it. I mean, I could eat and drink enough to make a bonus check. So by teaching someone else how to eat and drink enough, they can make money. However, due to this and similar sites, people are becoming discouraged. I mean, I've never met anyone that lost a fortune. Whats a hundred bucks, I mean, honestly? You could make that in a day at a decent job. You lose out, no big deal. You aren't looked down on or hated. The business will grow regardless.

When the business does grow, and all the people that said no, because of sites like this decide, "Oh man, maybe I should have tried it!" Then, these once discouraged people jump in after Market Penetration, when the business IS saturated and will no longer grow, are out of luck.

The thing I don't like about that is, once the business hits a saturation point and stops growing, people will start quiting. When someone quits, their up-line will lose a small percent of their profits. As more people quite, up-lines will make less and less. It's posible that the system will in fact reverse itself. Though not likely, the whole system could hit a wall and work in reverse based on the last person not being able to succeed.

Well, you might consider that to be great, however, 5 years from then, a new system will be developed, and the same people that failed will avoid it and it will continue to repeat.

All in all, from a financial stand point, the plan will be good for a couple years. In a couple of years, E-commerce will hit market penetration. All of the people that decide they want to give this business a shot, needs to do it now, because, in a couple years, the business will not be buildable.

However, a couple of years really is all it takes to make a large profit, wether it's 'residual' or not, I dont care. making a thousand dollar proffit one time is still a profit. On top of making a profit it has SO much more to offer. Ever since joining the business, I have changed as a person. I am a better person today then I was 6 months ago. I know about Economics, business and investing. I've learnt people skills, I've become more ambitions, more goal oriented. I am stronger then I used to be. In all honesty, if I never make a dime, if I come out a thousand dollars short of what I had before I went in, it was well worth it. The business and it's people have allowed me to grow to a point where, if my business doesn't grow, I know I will and have, and the business won't matter to me.

So, before you continue for another year about how dumb people that join Quixtar is, remember that your words only break the determination of the weak minded, and the strong minded have nothing to fear because it's those select few who know how to think for themselves, and not rely on a persons unwanted opinion and discriminations, who will one day be the future leaders of America. You sit back with you high and mighty self righteousness, and you continue to be negative towards the business and its people, and the business and its people will continue to teach Positive Mental Attitude, leadership, and financial principals.

Personally, I would rather support a business that teaches a person how to better themselves (not just financially) then listen to the negative nature of the people on this site that have never seriously gotten involved.

I know and love my business team.

I find it pretty sad that everyone here has been pitching the same information for over year now.

Comenting back some years worth of post... How is the market saturated when it hasn't even hit 10% market penetration. Meaning, more the 90% of the US Economy is UNSATURATED. You said only those who jump on board early will make money and that everyone after that will be screwed... Quite frankly, the market place is not saturated.

Second off, there was mentioning of how no one has gone diamond since 1999 that WASN'T in it since Amway. Well, it is a 5 year plan, and diamondship is givin in September Every year. This being the sixth year, several people went diamond this year. My mentor, Dave Dassault went Diamond last weekend. My Friend is making a few hundred - not much, but a start. His up-line, is making about 50,000$'s a year however. I am still pretty new to the business, and I havenever bought a Book or a CD. (You are told you don't have to). However, I have seen people suceed. And until market penetration hits 10%, based on S-curve economics, anyone in the system can benefit. After E-Commerce reaches a market penetration of 10% it will quickly move through to 90%, and then slow down again. Naturally, those in at the 10% mark will benefit the most, those in during Market Penetration will benefit the least. However, those that get in after penetration hits 90% probably won't make a dime.

The thing I find sad, is that it really is a good business oppurtunity for people that seriously dedicate time to it. I mean, I could eat and drink enough to make a bonus check. So by teaching someone else how to eat and drink enough, they can make money. However, due to this and similar sites, people are becoming discouraged. I mean, I've never met anyone that lost a fortune. Whats a hundred bucks, I mean, honestly? You could make that in a day at a decent job. You lose out, no big deal. You aren't looked down on or hated. The business will grow regardless.

When the business does grow, and all the people that said no, because of sites like this decide, "Oh man, maybe I should have tried it!" Then, these once discouraged people jump in after Market Penetration, when the business IS saturated and will no longer grow, are out of luck.

The thing I don't like about that is, once the business hits a saturation point and stops growing, people will start quiting. When someone quits, their up-line will lose a small percent of their profits. As more people quite, up-lines will make less and less. It's posible that the system will in fact reverse itself. Though not likely, the whole system could hit a wall and work in reverse based on the last person not being able to succeed.

Well, you might consider that to be great, however, 5 years from then, a new system will be developed, and the same people that failed will avoid it and it will continue to repeat.

All in all, from a financial stand point, the plan will be good for a couple years. In a couple of years, E-commerce will hit market penetration. All of the people that decide they want to give this business a shot, needs to do it now, because, in a couple years, the business will not be buildable.

However, a couple of years really is all it takes to make a large profit, wether it's 'residual' or not, I dont care. making a thousand dollar proffit one time is still a profit. On top of making a profit it has SO much more to offer. Ever since joining the business, I have changed as a person. I am a better person today then I was 6 months ago. I know about Economics, business and investing. I've learnt people skills, I've become more ambitions, more goal oriented. I am stronger then I used to be. In all honesty, if I never make a dime, if I come out a thousand dollars short of what I had before I went in, it was well worth it. The business and it's people have allowed me to grow to a point where, if my business doesn't grow, I know I will and have, and the business won't matter to me.

So, before you continue for another year about how dumb people that join Quixtar is, remember that your words only break the determination of the weak minded, and the strong minded have nothing to fear because it's those select few who know how to think for themselves, and not rely on a persons unwanted opinion and discriminations, who will one day be the future leaders of America. You sit back with you high and mighty self righteousness, and you continue to be negative towards the business and its people, and the business and its people will continue to teach Positive Mental Attitude, leadership, and financial principals.

Personally, I would rather support a business that teaches a person how to better themselves (not just financially) then listen to the negative nature of the people on this site that have never seriously gotten involved.

I know and love my business team.

I find it pretty sad that everyone here has been pitching the same information for over year now.

Comenting back some years worth of post... How is the market saturated when it hasn't even hit 10% market penetration. Meaning, more the 90% of the US Economy is UNSATURATED. You said only those who jump on board early will make money and that everyone after that will be screwed... Quite frankly, the market place is not saturated.

Second off, there was mentioning of how no one has gone diamond since 1999 that WASN'T in it since Amway. Well, it is a 5 year plan, and diamondship is givin in September Every year. This being the sixth year, several people went diamond this year. My mentor, Dave Dassault went Diamond last weekend. My Friend is making a few hundred - not much, but a start. His up-line, is making about 50,000$'s a year however. I am still pretty new to the business, and I havenever bought a Book or a CD. (You are told you don't have to). However, I have seen people suceed. And until market penetration hits 10%, based on S-curve economics, anyone in the system can benefit. After E-Commerce reaches a market penetration of 10% it will quickly move through to 90%, and then slow down again. Naturally, those in at the 10% mark will benefit the most, those in during Market Penetration will benefit the least. However, those that get in after penetration hits 90% probably won't make a dime.

The thing I find sad, is that it really is a good business oppurtunity for people that seriously dedicate time to it. I mean, I could eat and drink enough to make a bonus check. So by teaching someone else how to eat and drink enough, they can make money. However, due to this and similar sites, people are becoming discouraged. I mean, I've never met anyone that lost a fortune. Whats a hundred bucks, I mean, honestly? You could make that in a day at a decent job. You lose out, no big deal. You aren't looked down on or hated. The business will grow regardless.

When the business does grow, and all the people that said no, because of sites like this decide, "Oh man, maybe I should have tried it!" Then, these once discouraged people jump in after Market Penetration, when the business IS saturated and will no longer grow, are out of luck.

The thing I don't like about that is, once the business hits a saturation point and stops growing, people will start quiting. When someone quits, their up-line will lose a small percent of their profits. As more people quite, up-lines will make less and less. It's posible that the system will in fact reverse itself. Though not likely, the whole system could hit a wall and work in reverse based on the last person not being able to succeed.

Well, you might consider that to be great, however, 5 years from then, a new system will be developed, and the same people that failed will avoid it and it will continue to repeat.

All in all, from a financial stand point, the plan will be good for a couple years. In a couple of years, E-commerce will hit market penetration. All of the people that decide they want to give this business a shot, needs to do it now, because, in a couple years, the business will not be buildable.

However, a couple of years really is all it takes to make a large profit, wether it's 'residual' or not, I dont care. making a thousand dollar proffit one time is still a profit. On top of making a profit it has SO much more to offer. Ever since joining the business, I have changed as a person. I am a better person today then I was 6 months ago. I know about Economics, business and investing. I've learnt people skills, I've become more ambitions, more goal oriented. I am stronger then I used to be. In all honesty, if I never make a dime, if I come out a thousand dollars short of what I had before I went in, it was well worth it. The business and it's people have allowed me to grow to a point where, if my business doesn't grow, I know I will and have, and the business won't matter to me.

So, before you continue for another year about how dumb people that join Quixtar is, remember that your words only break the determination of the weak minded, and the strong minded have nothing to fear because it's those select few who know how to think for themselves, and not rely on a persons unwanted opinion and discriminations, who will one day be the future leaders of America. You sit back with you high and mighty self righteousness, and you continue to be negative towards the business and its people, and the business and its people will continue to teach Positive Mental Attitude, leadership, and financial principals.

Personally, I would rather support a business that teaches a person how to better themselves (not just financially) then listen to the negative nature of the people on this site that have never seriously gotten involved.

I know and love my business team.

Hi.
Reading both sides of the argument has made me a bit confused. I have been approached by someone and got some info from them, but listening to all this, I think I will do some research before I make a decision. I do want to attend a seminar or convention though.

I live in Springfield, Illinois. Are there any conventions/seminars that are going to take place near my area in the near future? I also do not want to spend 50 bucks for the first seminar, so please suggest some smaller convention where the entry price is lower.

My email address is: sharad_velluri@yahoo.com

I find it pretty sad that everyone here has been pitching the same information for over year now.

Tell us "new" info?

Second off, there was mentioning of how no one has gone diamond since 1999 that WASN'T in it since Amway. Well, it is a 5 year plan, and diamondship is givin in September Every year. This being the sixth year, several people went diamond this year. My mentor, Dave Dassault went Diamond last weekend.

So, the ppl who were given diamondship signed up after 1999? Including your "mentor".

ppl who signed up 20 years ago going diamond now aren't proof of 2-5 years plan.

I could eat and drink enough to make a bonus check. So by teaching someone else how to eat and drink enough, they can make money.

So buy for yourself and teach others to do? It is illegal. Says Rich Devos, owner and founder of Quixtar.

ZAK,

you got it in a nutshell. Prices are way too high. Even some brand names are. It is just ripoff.

If you still want to do MLM, why do Quixtar? Their fame alone won't let you talk any one in.

Try some other MLM where you do no have to go to meeting, training is free amd products are cheap e.g. Passport. It was formed by former Quixtar Diamond Bo Short. Bo resigned as a diamond because of all the abuses going on.

Passport website is:

http://mlmblog.typepad.com/blog/

Why I like passport? They teach ppl to sell, not to consume themselves. So they have a better chance of making money. Also, they have a cap on MLM, it is more like direct sales then pyramid.

Bo Short website is

http://formerdiamond.com/

Dateline video on Quixtar is there. It is a must watch.

Watch that video and decide.

Personally, I won't even do direct sales and do some real part time job. Pays more. But it's up to you.

For all of you people out there id like to say, i have not spent more than 30 bucks on books and tapes, most of them my uplines gave them for free. I have been in the business for about 7 months, and i am what most would call a silver in the business. And my average paycheck is about 3000 a month. I am sorry but all the bad mouthing people out there i dont mean to disrespect you from your belifs. But its working fine for me.

Peoples big debate i see is that, quixtar has this many lawsuits and what not. Did anyone ever check how many lawsuits walmart has?

As for Bo Short, i dont want to bad mouth him or his business, because i find that to be unprofessional. People who bad mouth someone else's belif obviously have their own problems. I dont know how MLM works, BUT my personal opinion is Bo Short saw the sucess in quixtar and wanted it all to be his. So he started his own business, where he would be on top. I AM NOT STATING these as facts, but merely my opinion. Sorry if i disrespected anyones belifs.

You do not lose money in this business. No one is forcing you to go and buy 200 dollars worth of products. The concept is buy what you were gonna buy anyways, but get it in bulk value. Theres a reason why everything is priced the way it is.

If something wholesaled is bought for .5 and sold for 3 dollars, about 40-60% of that money in between goes into advertising. Q* doesnt not advertise, so that 40-60% comes back to the IBOs who redirected the business to themselves and others.

Its not hard to call people stupid or brainwashed, and call this whole thing a scam. I will not gurantee this will work for you but, it worked for me. People claim that they "know" who have lost tons of money, well frankly i feel bad for those people and have no idea how they did lose the money. It costed be 315 to join (265 for some products i wanted, about 50 for start up). I broke even the third month. I got a monthly check from Q* which allowed me to pay for the functions and seminars, meaning i didnt take out money from my part time job.

If your losing money QUIT, dont complain.

Hey Harman,

Walmart's lawsuits (and virtually all other large companies) are varied in their subject matter. Quixtar/Amway's lawsuits all center around the same exact thing: The tools scams. Also Dean Kosage didn't impress me when I was an IBO. He impresses me even less now that I know he was an abusive husband and father. He's a coward in my book.

Kindly tell me about BWW so that I could benefit from it. raama

I would just like to say that this system works for anyone willing to put the time in. In korea it is spreading like wild fire! Why? because people are willing to make something happen for themselves. I really get pissed when I see what this country is turning into. Why is it that the majority of people who are Dimonds are also people that are way above average anyway. In other words they would have been great at anything they did but they saw the simplicity of time and money = freedom and they made this work. It simple it's just not easy. So stop crying and go do something with your life loosers. Try winning for once you only need one reason to win. You got 2500 reasons why this doesnt work, use that creativity on something productive. I'm gonna go show the plan suckkas peace out.

If you are involved with Quixtar you better read rule 6.5

You will never be able to leave if you want to.

Check it out and you will see

Anyone that feels that it is more profitable to pay another person their time and money in exchange for money and products respectively is more profitable that spending time and money on yourself and reaping the benifits of profit and free time as well as performance bonuses is an Idiot. no one promises an easy profit. we build people in order to build business. If i can't sit here and say with conviction that I enjoy teaching people how to potentially make 150,00 dollars a year following a proven plan. (And by the way idiots, everyone needs an excuse when they fail at something, so of course averages would be low because they joined the business with the wrong expectations.) And another hint for the idiots. You don't get to make money from tapes until you are first sucessful so this crap about making a majority of money from tapes might be true, but remember they are where i wanna be and i can spend 8 friggin bux for a tape.
Finally. I DO NOT RECOMMEND anyone getting into this business if you think it is get rich quick and you are unwilling to listen and sacrafice. And by sacrafice i mean delayed gratification. Stop spending you money on crap and be dedicated to something for once in your life. And remember it costs half a million bux to open a McDonalds and own it and you can get rich quick. it only cost less than a hundred bucks to own your own business with quixtar and an oppourtunity to grow it as large as you want.

Have a blessed day

I've been with BWW for about 2 years and make an extra 2,000 in residual income per month. Not exactly rich, but good extra money for doing it part time. This is not for everyone. It will probably take me 20 years to make what some people make (200,000 +/year) because I don't work at it as hard as they do. But I'm 25 years old. So retiring at 45 doesn't so too bad at all. If you have any doubts about this program, it is probably better to not try it at all.

YOURS!!

I was born yesterday and now I make $4 Million a day. If you have any doubt, don't bother.

So yes it's me again. In response to "Can you dig it?"
I have some questions for you.
In response to question #1 Are you talking about global Diamonds or just in the United States, because like I said in Korea since 1999 over 250 people broke Diamonds, In the United States I don’t really care what the numbers are because I know our work ethic sucks. I do know that in less than two weeks time I have met kids 21 to 27 years old that have gone platinum in 1-2 years (60k) and at F.E.D I saw a couple that made a decision go Diamond in 4 years showing the plan 6 nights a week. I know this because they announce how hard they worked they did not lie and say you will be a one minute millionaire. In response to that web site I think is called formerdiamond.com why is the guy not putting his name on the site? What credibility should we give to someone who is not going to put his name behind his words? In response to this hype about being required to buy tapes.... nothing is required in this business, if it was possibly we would have more Diamonds in the US. Look at the facts, this country does not teach people to be business owners is teaches them to be employees and tax payers. Ask yourself did I get a tax course in High school? Why not they teach you how to bake a cake and add 2+2 but if everyone needs to pay taxes why not teach them how to do it? Because they don't want you to know. These tapes are tools, they teach you how to do things in business that no one else will ever take the time to sit down and discuss with you at work, heck most people in your family will not sit down with you and teach you what they know about business because they don't want to take the time. So if you want to try and convince me that reading books like "How to win friends and influence people" or "Hung by the tongue" is a waste of time and a rip off your barking up the wrong tree. I will not respond back to this site…. it seems like a few of us have enough of a presence here to make it clear that this a profitable business plan if you put forth the effort. What business does not have an overhead cost? If you don't do any work for your business and you have an overhead will you lose money? Hmmmm I think so. The overhead by the way is minimal average 250 a month to run everything the way it should. I’m sorry to say but there is a price to pay for success. However nothing is required in this business and I got to attend a major function for free at F.E.D. in long beach as a guest. If all they cared about was making money at these things don’t you think they would have charged something, even 10 dollars but no they want people to see what they are getting into and they will not charge someone to take a close look at the business. I saw them take the time to honor our VETERENS OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA. I don’t know of a business that still salutes the flag or sings all the old songs of this nation we once sang in schools. I have never seen a business have a church service on Sunday morning and ask people to put God in front of the work effort, and for the first time ever I saw people fighting for what they believe in. I think that’s what this country was founded on, I don't know if they are still teaching that in school though. So keep on crying if you want to I'm going to go talk with some winners, people who fight for Freedom. My name is Russell Patrick Ryan Delbridge and I’m going Crown Ambassador.

Riddle me this one batman:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with the quixtar opportunity, but the quixtar business itself is a total scam.

What is it with the Quixtar-pushers and their aversion to using paragraphs? It's as though I only need to examine the superficial characteristics of a post (Can they spell? Do they know how to capitalize? Can they break their thoughts into paragraphs?) to determine where the person stands regarding Quixtar.

There are exceptions, true. But the general trend is irrefutable.

well if u think it does not work it does not work for u, if u think it works then it definitely work system has a proven track record and so has the company,
the point is that do u work or not
and we donot need to proove any one as the facts speak for themselves!!! check urself before u try to check us( BWW ). . .

Greetings, Belive you me I have been through most of the comments posted since last year until today (sad innit) The fact is that I've been to their FED and some speakers are well educated which does make you think that there must be a reason why these professional/qualified people chose to do this.

But one thing that didn't come up during the FED or no one else have been able to explain is that how the structure works, how exactly BWW and Amway makes money to exist. I simply want to learn bit more about it so I can go and be FREE.

One thing is for sure that these people lift you up, make you think positive and make you think to be a fighter and not a excusitis - what's wrong in that? OK if the organisation make a bit of money for the hardwork you put in so what's the big deal, they have given you a platform and a system.

Put it this - the amount of time you spend in showing the plan and going to the meetings is a lot less than going to your full time job and you make almost the same money as a Silver - is that really bad?

Confused,

You deserve the 'opportunity' just as much as it deserves you.

Go get 'em!

First, for those of you who believe this to be a pyramid try looking at the job you are in. There is an owner and you are somewhere beneath them. They do not pay you what you are worth and you will never be above them. In this business, if you get signed up and make millions and the person that signed you up doesn't do anything then they don't get anything. I think people are so upset with this business because if you are lazy then it will not work for you. If you do the work, you get paid. If you don't, then you don't. Everybody wants a handout but this business is not one. The opportunity is there and it doesn't matter what your background is. And people that have any business sense will know that this is the ideal business to be in. McDonald's business model is genius and it is obviously proven successful. We use the same business model and we are also a proven success. Anyone who speaks negative about this business has either never been in the business or had an extremely small and short-term business and were not willing to grow and change. This business is a constant. The people are the variable. If you truly and unselfishly want to succeed in this business you absolutly will. And if you are just looking for a handout or a "get rich quick" scheme then you come to the wrong place. I love this business is just like America and that's why I love it. You have the freedom and choice to succeed or fail, no matter what your background. The choice yours alone.

Straight from Quixtar playbook!

First, for those of you who believe this to be a pyramid try looking at the job you are in.

How about Former Diamonds and Emeralds? They're quite critical of it!

Eric Schiebler: http://www.merchantsofdeception.com
Bo short: http://www.formerdiamond.com
Bruce Anderson: http://www.baron55.com

I think it a sad thing that so many here are so closed-minded about a genuine, long-term money making opportunity. It is also apparent by the many misspelled words in most of your blogs that you have very limited or little education. That leads to my next point...Why would I want to pay attention to someone who cannot even spell the simplest of words in our everyday language correctly? That shortcoming alone gives me great pause in reading anything else those of you who obviously have small minds would post. Grow up, get a clue, and DO something worthwhile with your lives, instead of tearing down what others are trying to build for themselves and their families. dliv, as for this business having the "obvious makings of a pyramid scheme..." Think on this...I have a close friend whose sponsor in the business doesn't do anything but purchase his monthly needs in products...toilet paper, toothpaste, garbage bags, breakfast cereal, etc… thru our system...My friend is building the business and makes far more money than the "guy above him" as you say. NO pyramid could work this way. Again, get a clue. In closing, all I can say is that I feel sorry for those of you who buy into the hate and vindictiveness of the uneducated and unmotivated in this land. America IS The Land Of Opportunity. Just because a group of you choose to sit on your lazy haunches and do nothing, don't run your yaps and try to keep those of us who have dreams and goals (kids' college tuition, upgrades on my home, a car that runs ALL the time as opposed to some of the time, etc.) doesn't give you the right to shoot off your mouth in the negative about a business you obviously truly know nothing about.
You work at a job for the same kinds of things. Now THERE's a pyramid...your boss will ALWAYS make more money than you, and the owner will ALWAYS be wealthier than you because YOU are the one generating the income for HIS family. Now, who's the one who's part of a cult, dliv?

FREEDOM!

Shashi,
Dear soul, you're not an American...that's ok. Don't stay here and run your mouth about what you don't like. If you don't like it here...LEAVE.

Mick writes:

"America IS The Land Of Opportunity. Just because a group of you choose to sit on your lazy haunches and do nothing, don't run your yaps and try to keep those of us who have dreams and goals (kids' college tuition, upgrades on my home, a car that runs ALL the time as opposed to some of the time, etc.) doesn't give you the right to shoot off your mouth in the negative about a business you obviously truly know nothing about."

Actually Mick, the fact that America is the land of opportunity is exactly what gives me and anyone else the right to shoot our mouths off in the negative about your joke of a business opportunity.

And as far as your weak, regurgitated analogy of a typical job being a pyramid, of course the boss makes more than the employees. The difference between that and your joke of a business opportunity is that, in a job the boss isn't promising the employees that they will all one day be bosses and the employees are not having to pay to work for him. They are guaranteed a wage and in many cases (contrary to popular IBO belief), are quite happy with their job.

You see, Mick many of us who shoot our mouths off are doing so because we WERE educated and intelligent enough to see the 'opportunity' for what it really was: a morally bankrupt group of kingpins taking advantage of people through fear, envy, idolatry, and brainwashing. The really sad part is that there are people like yourself who actually believe that they will be able to make money with this and that there is no other way to make an honest living.

Perhaps the next time you wish to post about how educated you are, you might attempt to offer an original thought versus one that has been heard countless times before from other IBOs too caught up in the dream to think for themselves.

Let us hear why MICK chooses to do this. Not why Bill Britt says you should do it. I'll bet you can't come up with an original thought of your own concerning this complete sham of a business opportunity.

By the way what does 'dliv' mean? You typed it twice while educating us about spelling and grammar, yet I cannot recall ever hearing or using this word, nor can I find a meaning for it in the dictionary.

I've never played Women BasketBall, can I talk about it?

I've never participated in professional wrestling, can I talk about it?

About good and bad opinion, here you go: a challange for you:

http://quixtarsucks.blogspot.com/2005/11/find-me-disgruntled-people.html

It's not "Finding people with opinion". It's how much truth in those opinions.

Ppl talk trash about Microsoft? Hell yeah!

Are they broke losers? Are they low life commie liberals? Or is it something Microsoft does that bugs people?

Here's a perspective unlike most that are posted here. Your comments are welcomed.

Instead of building a Quixtar business, spend 8-10 hours per week donating your efforts to a local charity, where each hour you serve directly benefits someone that is truly in need.

Instead of building a Quixtar business, spend $100 per month on a $1,000,000 term life insurance policy, so that if the X factor comes, your family is financially secure for years to come.

Spend your evenings and weekends living life - with your children (they're in school all day, so why would I want to be at home, then build a business in the evenings and weekends?), and your friends, attending sporting events and theatre, playing games, going out to eat, just living an enjoyable life!

I'd like to hear a pro-Quixtar refute the above lifestyle. Your upline would be very disappointed to know that you are on this site right now...

Jeff - thank you for your honest response (and yes, I'm certain you are reading this right now - who posts on a forum and doesn't check for responses????). Unfortunately, it was spoken like a true brainwashed victim - I know because, like most of us who have visited this site, I am well aware of the mind-control techniques used to isolate IBO's from the masses. You see, I, like many others, used to speak exactly as you have. You'll be a "broke loser" just like the rest of us eventually, with only piles of CD's and a list of deadbeat downline as record of your experiences. I know that hurts, Jeff - most of us know exactly what it feels like.

Sadly, your response was right on par - simply discredit the source, so that you do not need to provide an intelligent, factual retort to any negative comment about your cult.

Of course, you can't respond to this, because then we'll all know for certain that you're reading this.

Jeff, what if I give you the recorded council of upline telling downline pin ladies to hold sex on their husbands if he's not doing 9 core steps? (Show the plan, do personal volume, read books, listen tapes etc.)

If you think that Britt World Wide is sick for providing a Business Education portal where you must buy all the books yourself to learn from them, then you should also be against colleges that demand you pay tuition, pay for books, and pay for classes (that most people don't often pay attention to and apply to a mass-benifitial extent). If anything, you are against yourself and your belief that you and other people around you can be benefical to this world. The system is designed to create a globle coorperation that respects each person's right to take responsibilty for their own actions.

If a tech-minded person creates the internet to expand the transfer of information and enhance the active responsibilty of each person learning and creating information, yet other people still see television and the passive participation of learning as the right thing (thus giving up control of themselves to other people) then of course the mass amount of people will not be successful. Only the responsible ones who take control of God-given lives and their business will be successful. All others that don't produce any value for others and don't participate actively in their learning will be left behind.

The point is that if everyone took responsibilty for their own actions, in one business, then everyone would benifit from that business system. If you teach responsiblity to your downlines, then your orginization will grow. And if this system does create over-saturation, those that are free to do so will create another system like it that creates the same opportunity for infinte wealth as the first business. Quixtar, is the most effective, efficient, and ethical distribution operation I've seen. And even when it becomes mainstream to the greatest extent, future businesses will forever have some basis in the priciples applied through this business.

That priciple alone explains why Amway was streamlined with the creation of Quixtar and it explains why other major distribution corperations that are traditionaly brick and mortar, are going online to be a part of Quixtar's operation. Also, imagine the benifits to humanity this corperation is providing when this opportunity frees up land to build more housing projects on. You want a home latter in life don't you? Maybe you want to go into real-estate? This is going to create a second boom in real-estate if you ask me. People will be alowed to live as people, and our standard of living will rise from the chain-reaction of Quixtar's value-producing contribution alone. Also, the cost of living will go down.

So, what's wrong with people actively investing in thier education today? The only reason universities are rasing a stink to the media about this is because of their failure to integrate standards of education to the level of independent organizations that corperations like Quixtar provide. They want to bad-mouth progress, because they want to live in a stagnant world that ultimately produces death and destruction.
This is a world by-the-way that media reports feed off of. And that is why the media wishes to attack, twist the truth, and dicourage would-be heros of our day.

I say, don't let them. Be responsible, and build value for others.

In addition to my earlier comments, I would like to add, that in my opinon, one who is a business owner, should focus on creating a client-member base first to establish the money-making credibility of the buisines's service and products. Remember that any client can always upgrade their memebership status.

And as for getting on the ground floor of creating something completely different, it becomes less of a risk if you have funds from a pre-established business to start it.

So, to all people of all business, build until you can expand. Exert your efforts toward your own buisiness to create value for others, and always look to help others in pursuit of managing your own increasing value.

Money is an eternal currency of value representation, whether it's in your hands or not. Use it wisely, and you will be given more opportunity to use it.

Don't spend more than you have to, only spend when you can, within reason.
Your time can be spent when you don't have the money to spend. And your money can be spent when you don't have the time to spend. So trade your time for money, save that money up, and spend it sparingly as more money rolls in. Then, you will have wealth through this system.

That is why I build sales of products to build experience for the sales of business systems. (Buisiness systems that are only paid to the Government for processing fees. The rest is only optional to add to your professional image.)

I only want responsible self-starting people to market for me. Otherwise, there is no reason to contract them. Only irresponsible marketers will do is blame me for their own failures. They still get paid on their own retail profits and receive performance bonuses based on results regardless if they are responsible or not. Yet they will only see profit when they are responsible.

I want people to build their dreams until they've profited so much from helping others and themselves that they have time to think of more innovative pursuits.

Maybe this is idealisim at it's best, but only proper application of what it takes will make it happen. Inspire people with a dream, and equip them so they don't let that dream die. Then your pockets and their pockets will be filled to expand industry to new heights.

In addition to my earlier comments, I would like to add, that in my opinon, one who is a business owner, should focus on creating a client-member base first to establish the money-making credibility of the buisines's service and products. Remember that any client can always upgrade their memebership status.

And as for getting on the ground floor of creating something completely different, it becomes less of a risk if you have funds from a pre-established business to start it.

So, to all people of all business, build until you can expand. Exert your efforts toward your own buisiness to create value for others, and always look to help others in pursuit of managing your own increasing value.

Money is an eternal currency of value representation, whether it's in your hands or not. Use it wisely, and you will be given more opportunity to use it.

Don't spend more than you have to, only spend when you can, within reason.
Your time can be spent when you don't have the money to spend. And your money can be spent when you don't have the time to spend. So trade your time for money, save that money up, and spend it sparingly as more money rolls in. Then, you will have wealth through this system.

That is why I build sales of products to build experience for the sales of business systems. (Buisiness systems that are only paid to the Government for processing fees. The rest is only optional to add to your professional image.)

I only want responsible self-starting people to market for me. Otherwise, there is no reason to contract them. Only irresponsible marketers will do is blame me for their own failures. They still get paid on their own retail profits and receive performance bonuses based on results regardless if they are responsible or not. Yet they will only see profit when they are responsible.

I want people to build their dreams until they've profited so much from helping others and themselves that they have time to think of more innovative pursuits.

Maybe this is idealisim at it's best, but only proper application of what it takes will make it happen. Inspire people with a dream, and equip them so they don't let that dream die. Then your pockets and their pockets will be filled to expand industry to new heights.

If you think that Britt World Wide is sick for providing a Business Education portal where you must buy all the books yourself to learn from them, then you should also be against colleges that demand you pay tuition, pay for books,

• I don't think it's sick. I think it's a scam.
• If end goal of college is only to become a teacher, teach others to become a teacher, then yeah, I would be against that too.

If a tech-minded person creates the internet to expand the transfer of information and enhance the active responsibility of each person learning and creating information, yet other people still see television and the passive participation of learning as the right thing (thus giving up control of themselves to other people) then of course the mass amount of people will not be successful.

Fine, but if some one become rich only because other lose, that's a scam.

What if those in negative (profit - expense Quixtar, is the most effective, efficient, and ethical distribution operation I've seen.

I don't know much about the legality, but i do know that i was contacted by a company that uses Britt World Wide and when I was having the business explained to me they explained it as a pyramid, so they are a pyramid company.

I have come upon this blog by chance and have been reading through the various comments. I have found some comments amusing and some comments distressing.

I don't profess to be an expert on Quixtar/Amway. I have never joined the organizaiton. I have attended a couple of meetings and have been approached various times at supermarkets, Wal-mart, etc.

There has been a lot of animosity on this site, both toward Quixtar IBO's and those that oppose them. I don't despise Quixtar or their IBO's. I feel sorry for them. I encourage anyone who has any interest in the organization to educate yourselves as much as possible and to listen to various perspectives. One resource that was very informative for me is an e-book by Eric Scheibler called "Merchants of Deception". If you would like a copy, please feel free to email me at edmasterusa@hotmail.com and I will forward you a copy.

For those of you who realize that Quixtar is not "all that it's cracked up to be", you must also realize that once IBO's crack the surface of the organization - they are subjected to very effective brainwashing techniques. You cannot argue with them. They need help, not arguments.

Been there.

Arugments = Help Ryan. Not attacks, but fact filled. And I understand, I was there. I didn't hear (or never knew about this site) a single valid arguments.

Beside, there is nothing wrong ppl posting their point of views. That's 21st century. If we all have same views, we would be sheep.

First of all, I want to make this known... I am an IBO. I have been in business for over one year and I am growing - I am growing mentally and thus will see some major returns financially.

I have allowed myself to be subjected to the negative crap that is written on these blogs and I have to say that I find it amusing. For people to say that IBOs are brainwashed...I totally agree.. We are brainwashed - Brainwashed for success.

For those of you who are not IBOs - good for you. I am not going to bash you because the business is not for everyone, but for those of you who says that Quixtar sucks and that the business is a scam... well I feel sorry for you. Why? Because what you have been taught is a scam..

Here is why, You go to school (college) for 4-6 years to get a degree whichs says what? That you are qualified to be a worker. So you work on someone else's plantation and get paid a WAGE. Then once you get your degree, you STOP learning or educating yourself and get remain in a slump for 45 year, just to retire off of a third of your best year's income.

Now the System promotes Books/Tapes/Seminars/Functions... Let ask you haters a question... whats the difference between the system and college????

You purchase books at college (which most people don't read anyway) and at the end of the year you may be able to sell the book back, but do you remember what you ever read when you take a course in college? What about a book from the business. First of all, have any of you haters ever read The Magic of Thinking BIG or How to Win Friends and Influence People?? If you did, you would know that life and education is about knowing who you are and growing yourself so that you can be a blessing to someone else.

IF you took a moment to ask yourself, where am I in life and Do I want more, then truly listen to an IBO when they say they want to help you succeed in life, then you could make the business happen. The Business is YOU! IF YOU don't invest in yourself and your growth, by reading and learning from other successful people, then how do you plan on becoming (Financially) Successful?

The True Scam is the amount of Broke people who come out of college, just to work in a job and live paycheck to paycheck. For those of you who say Quixtar sucks, Let me ask you this... Did your job send you to Dallas for an all expenses paid trip, just to hang out with other employees from your job? Did you or will you receive a Year End Bonus Check for helping other people succeed? What about being able to motivate a young person to do better in life than just watch TV, drink 40's (for those who don't know what that is - beer) and play with their sacks!

YOU All must understand... Opportunities are disguised as WORK. And most people are Lazy. If you have a goal, whether it is to build your own business (other then quixtar) or go to college. It all has to start with a WHY? Those who know HOW always work for those who know WHY!

So before you click the link to give your rebuttal, just know that if you want to be broke in 5 years, keep doing what you have been doing (thats if you are broke now).

IF you are wealthy and making all the money you want to make... Great.. What the heck you doing on here.

If you are an IBO... Keep the Hammer down and STOP going to these site... You need to maintain a level of positive and all reading this crap does is make your question the business and your involvement.

If my upline makes money because I buy books and tapes from him - SO WHAT!!!

Barnes and Noble makes money when I buy books from them but is anyone complaining?

My church makes money when I buy CD's from them.. IS anyone complaining?

So if my upline sells me a book or cd, that allows me to learn more about me and allows me to grow... then I thank God because I paying back a student loan for college (nearly $40K) and I don't have anything to show for it but debt..

So if you gonna build the business...GO CAM.

If not, GOD BLess you anyway.

Peace and Blessings!

The Motivator
9-5-3 D.S.V

Motivator, you are assuming a lot!!! You are assuming

- All ppl who work are broke.
- All ppl who don't do Quixtar are LAZY.

Here is the difference between College and Quixtar system:

I had a meeting with one of the IBOs today. After talking to him, I am interested in the system. But the way he explained it sounded like a pyramid scheme. He told me there is a one time fee of $300 and that’s it. Can someone verify this price? Does this system actually work? I don’t want to recruit anyone. Can I still make money from selling the products that Quixtar offers? Please explain.

Question for anyone:

What is the definition of a "pyramid scheme?"

Hey Maxwell,

According to the Federal Trade Comission, the definition is as follows:

'Prohibited marketing scheme' means a pyramid sales scheme, Ponzi scheme, chain marketing scheme, or other marketing plan or program in which a person participates under a condition that he or she make a payment, directly or indirectly, to receive the right, license or opportunity to derive income as a participant primarily from:
(1) the recruitment of additional recruits by the participant, program promoter or others; or
(2) non-retail sales made to or by such recruits.

'Retail Sales' means sales of products, services, or Business Ventures by Defendants, their successors, assigns, agents, servants, employees, and those persons in active concert or participation with them to third-party end users. Retail Sales do not include sales made by participants in a prohibited marketing scheme or multi-level marketing program to other participants or recruits in that scheme or program or to such a participants' own accounts.'

Hope this helps. That is, if you are genuinely unaware of what it is.

If you are trying to be a wise-guy, however and hoping to respond by regurgitating what your upline said with regard to the typical 9-5 job being a pyramid, thus justifying your own involvement in the Quixtar pyramid, well then sorry. It's very different.

Either way, I hope this helps.

This is some interesting insight to be found here.

http://quixtar.blogharbor.com/

I have been reading a lot of replies from people in this forum, reguarding B.W.W & Quixtar. I find that there are pros and cons to every situation. I just attended a meeting at a man by the name of Paul Millers' house. I saw what the business did for him and how it changed his life. You have to be willing to work for anything in life. We all know this. There is no get rich quick schemes out there. if it is then theres some kind of catch to it. I'm going to give this a try. McDonalds, walmart,jiffy lube all started with a dream and a risk. Now look at the empires that they've created. It may take me 2-5 yrs to make it, it may be sooner. Only you can decide how far you want to go in life. sceptics seem to aways start on the side lines, and most of the time stay there.

Arnel,

I recently joined Quixtar and went to three open meetings and a product demonstration night. So far everything seems to be legit. Most of the people I met have a regular full time job. Like myself, they’re just doing this to get extra income on the side. My upline and sponsor have been every helpful. They didn’t sell any CDs to me, but instead my upline gave me a bunch of CDs to listen. I am going to give this a try. I know its not going to be easy. I just don’t know why people kept calling Quixtar is a pyramid? Yes, it’s a MLM, but it’s not illegal. Otherwise, why would the Federal Trade Commission approves Quixtar’s business plan? It’s not like the top people are getting all the money. Yes, it is true that most of them are millionaires. But it took them 2-5 years to get to where they’re today. I can make more money than my upline if and only if I’m willing to work hard for the next 1-5 years. Many people that I talked to about Quixtar have a negative opinions about it. But what give them the rights to talk bad things about Quixtar when they don’t even know what it is about. For those of you who are thinking of joining, please don’t listen to anyone but yourself. You’re an adult; you can determine what is best for yourself.

newcommer, first of all, I heard MANY success stories, and I felt I'm missing something, or I can make something out of it.

All of those stories were.....false. Or as they call "Speaking positive". Yeah it is taught to make up fake claims.

2nd, in India, prices are CRAZY high. Here it's not that cheap but I can't believe in India some one buy a shampoo for Rs. 4400???

Money comes from speaking, tapes, CDs which tell ppl how to sell shampoo :D

Another test:

Millionaire American houses: 4 - 6 %
Millionaires (Assuming Diamond = Millionaire) in Quixtar: .04%

Source: Amquix.info

Honestly, it's a scam. Stay Away. 50% IBO quit EVERY year.

If you are ignorant, apathetic and full of unmotivated ambition driven only by envy, this scheme is for you.

There is no integrity to a system in which those whom are introducing it to you cannot come up with the original sources for the information they are dazzling you with.

No integrity when the full, honest facts cannot be laid out in front of you immediately upon intoduction.

No integrity when young impressionable people, or even gullable older people invest their hard earned money into a system which ultimately cannot support itself.

If you want a lesson on thinking for yourself for the first time, join quixtar. If you want to understand why people do not trust salesmen, join quixtar. If you want to see a bunch of lower middle class and upper lower class people pretending to be on the fast track up, join quixtar. My advise, read Imran Aziz' comments carefully and take them truefully.

that last post - he was kidding, right? I assume that was meant to be humorous. He didn't just say that this business gives him self-confidence to meet girls???

I'm rethinking this now. That business is good for some people - those who have nothing else in their life - no friends, no self-esteem, bad job, life has kicked them around a bit. Good for you guy!

Got news for ya buddy - you probably haven't been to a major conference yet, but I'd keep those girl comments to a minimum. And yes, all of us former IBO's remember the good old days, the early days when the sky was the limit. Oooooh, how things will change.

Eddy,
You and others who believe in Quixtar are in for a rude awakening one of these days. It might take you a while to WAKE UP! I used to say all the same things you're saying about this business. I reached the level of Direct under the Britt Organization in the 80's. I didn't quit because I wasn't working the business hard enough, I quit because its a SCAM and cult.

Eddy,
You and others who believe in Quixtar are in for a rude awakening one of these days. It might take you a while to WAKE UP! I used to say all the same things you're saying about this business. I reached the level of Direct under the Britt Organization in the 80's. I didn't quit because I wasn't working the business hard enough, I quit because its a SCAM and cult.

HAVE YOU GUYS HEARD THE NEWS????

Britt World Wide has basically disbanded beneath the Paul Miller organization. Larry Winters has completely broken off from BWW, and a number of diamonds beneath Paul Miller are splitting off to join the Winters or Crowe teams separately.

So people are basically waking up one morning and having a different upline to mentor them.

I thought the "relationships" in this business were forever??

Christian,

I am 27 yrs old and created a six figure income...

Would those six figures be laid out like this?: $X,XXX.XX

If you'd like to get some front page coverage, feel free send me a copy of your tax form. If you do so, and you've made > $99,999 in the last year from Quixtar, I will run a front-page retraction.

Until then, you're just a person who's not even willing to provide an e-mail address as proof, much less some real evidence, and who is, frankly, most likely lying.

Do you think Circuit City, Barnes and Noble or Office Depot are going to get involved in a SCAM.

Dude, their profit comes directly from your loss. You are their consumer, not their "partner". And yes, of course they'd be involved in a scam, just not an illegal one.

Supplier != Consumer. Please learn some business basics. If you can't tell the difference between these roles, you really shouldn't be handing out business advice.

Grow up get educated...

... so said a 27-year-old who can't disguish between consumers and suppliers...

... that goes for all you negative people, by writing these blogs.

Yes, his opponents are wasting time (several minutes, sometimes!) by writing responses like mine. But he, presumably, spends hours and hours each week at useless "meetings", cheering for a brand-name, and spends hours each week looking for new fake "friends" to suck into Quixtar.

And he's worried about how others are spending their time?

Oh, and I LOVE that after implying that all of his opponents must be immature and uneducated, he then has the gall to accuse them of being "negative", right after making such attacks.

Hilarious!

Dude, look at yourself in the mirror, and learn something.

Good day!

I said something a while ago and it was picked up in some pro-mlm blogs:

http://tinyurl.com/ankgq

Anonymous: Do you people really think companies like Barnes & Noble, Office Max, Nike, Bass Pro Shops, and Circuit City would put their name on the line and risk losing their hard earned credibility just to SCAM you guys? You people need to get educated.

Loser: Educate us.

Many terrorists uses Nokia cell phone. Nokia loses any credibility?

:)

Wal-mart will sell products to child molesters, thieves and politicians. Law doesn't have a problem here.

Get it?

I found this site after being approached by an IBS and having a meeting with her. I basically sat through her whole sales pitch, not really asking any questions, and left. I knew that once I figured out what company she actually worked for, I could do some research on it. So, that's why I'm here.

Now, I'm curious about all you who say this works, and you are making alot of money on it, etc... I know this has been raised before, but, where is the money coming from? If this "business" were not so "exclusive", where only members could buy the products, you might actually make money legitimately. But as it is, you only make money from the people under you, whether they be other IBS, or just plain buyers of the products. Because that IS how it works right? From my understanding, you CAN make money by just recruiting other people to buy from Quixtar, instead of say, Walmart. But why on earth would they?

From general consensus, it seems that the products that Quixtar sell are at least more expensive than what you would find at a normal retail store, and at best, around the same price. This is not even counting the countless online vendors that are available.

So I just have one question to ask of people who are "making money" on this venture. Do you not feel bad f***ing the people you care about, i.e. friends and family, who I assume are the first people you tried to market this to? Because honestly, you know the numbers. You know how many people succeed in this. You know, or should know, that the majority of people in this business inherently will fail, and not because they are "lazy" or "unmotivated" or "quitters". This is just a simple fact of mathematics and actual true business. Not like the people who read a few books and listen to some CD's and profess themselves to be some kind of business guru.

And something that I have noticed...the only people who have supported this company, who argued that the business model works, are all giving a personal experience with it. No one has intelligently refuted the facts of the business model. And it seems they don't care that the majority of the people who they recruit, and who buy into this "opportunity", will all become another statistic...another person who "couldn't hack it" and quit. Another "pathetic loser".

One last thing, as condescending as all the supporters are, you'd think they actually did something good in society. Or at least were intelligent and could back their arguments with some cold hard facts.

ps- I've decided not to take advantage of this opportunity. I have to say thank you for the real deal on this blog. And thank you to all those who argued for the company. You probably opened my eyes more than those who were against it.

sorry...IBS=IBO in above post

To the anonymous Quixtar drone posting about "Quixtar Qrush": Hi! You might have noticed all your posts have been deleted, and that you've been banned. Too bad, so sad.

Next time, you might consider reading and respecting other bloggers' comment rules. You are a blogger's guest, and you should behave respectfully as such.

In particular, notice the part where I mention no long re-posts from other blogs? You violated that one. Notice where I forbid off-topic diatribes? Your obvious fixation on Bo Short -- not at all related to this topic -- violates that one. Notice the part where I forbid spam? Since your entire stream of comments (and blog) was clearly intended to promote Quixtar ahead of competitors, your anonymous stream of comments also violated that one.

So, hey -- you violated three rules at once! Pretty good going. And you want people to think Quixtar is "ethical"? Then why do so many pro-Quixtar people seem to not care at all about flagrantly breaking every rule in sight? Hmmmmm?

But hey, thanks for the educational demonstration. I'm sure people coming here and noticing this will be impressed with yet another example of moronic, cult-like, obsessive, and unethical behavior by a Quixtar promoter.

Visitors: Do you really want to be associated with any business where the promoters seem to continually lie, break rules, spread lies and rumors about everyone who disagrees with them, and drone on incessantly about their "business"?

Smokinn,

I am one of the IBO's that I keep reading stupid comments about...

Then: Welcome!

In my experience, there are basicly three kinds of IBOs: The ignorant, the evil, and the ex. All who sign up basicly start out as ignorant. If and when they understand the basic nature of the business, they're forced to choose between one of the latter two categories.

Here's hoping I'm able to communicate clearly...

Regarding deception in pro-Quixtar posts:

This guy is saying that Q* is AMway and Q* should be responsible for stuff that the con artist guys are stating...

Not at all. I'm just pointing out that so very, very many people who promote this company engage in slimy tactics. I think that says something.

Do you think everyone at Enron was corrupt? No, just a few people at the top. Heck, even when there are just a few corrupt people lower in the company, it gets a bad rep. Yet here's a company where, in my experience, many, many of the people associated with it tend to be dishonest. I think that should tell people something. You think it's irrevelant.

At a minimum, it means Quixtar is not very good at kicking out the slimy people from their ranks: That they don't care about unethical behavior by their IBOs. What does that say? At worst, it means that there is something about the nature of the "system" which tends to attract that sort of shenanigans.

You apparently don't think that matters. Good enough. But I don't think that says much about your business acumen or choice in alliances.

On getting rich quick:

If this was a get rich quick scheme, how come no one gets rich quick . it takes time and effort... Do you get rich quick? NO

Are you paying attention? Clearly not.

Show me where I claim Quixtar promises people they will get rich "quick"? The question, bright boy, is whether the average IBO will get rich at all, ever.

All the evidence I can see says NO: instead, the average IBO will lose, not gain money. And the harder they work, the more they will lose. To me, that looks unethical, not to mention cruel.

Re: Is this Amway?

Quixtar is a company similar in the inherent structure of the Amway business. Why do I say that?It's because Q* was created by the children of the guy who started Amway.

They're under the same ownership, and use the same basic business "system" for promoting themselves. By their own admission, they're part of the same "family of companies." And in the US, Quixtar started up where Amway left off. They are not competitors, but replacements.

Thus, the criticisms which are generally leveled against one also apply to the other as well. In court cases, they have been treated as one and the same.

Regardless, the criticism on this blog is focused on the brand name "Quixtar", which makes me wonder why you think the above argument is some kind of defense. It comes off like you're mindlessly repeating irrelevant arguments.

Regarding that return policy: From what I've heard, it's generally a myth. Remember, as the IBO, it is YOU, not Quixtar, who will have to buy back everything some downline purchased in the last six months. Generally, it doesn't happen.

Tell me: If you signed up three or five IBOs, and they all quit within a year, are you saying YOU would be willing (much less financially able!) to buy back most or all of what they'd bought within the last six months? No??? Then why do you imagine it would be done for you?

Worse: how can you ethically sign them up, if you're not sure you'll be able to keep promises you make regarding their possible demands for a refund from you??? That's unethical. You'll be promising them something you aren't sure you'll be able to deliver -- or even know full well you can't.

Dean,

"Final blow?" What on earth are you talking about? Your arguments aren't devestating -- to the contrary, they're generally irrelevant. And they've all been answered here already...

Final blow right here - go to IRS.gov. That is the website for the Internal Revenue Service. If you would believe anyone about the value of a business, how about the IRS?

Earth to Dean: The IRSs is NOT concerned with the "value" of a business. They are concerned with whether they have paid their taxes.

Refresher course: Ever hear of Al Capone? Famous Chicago gangster? He went to jail for not paying his taxes. If Al Capone would have paid his taxes, would that have made his actions "ethical"? According to your logic, yes.

I've answered this and similar questions a dozen times before: Quixar is unprofitable for the average IBO, and unethical by biblical standards. You can't refute that by arguing Quixtar paid their taxes. Duh!

Say I told you to buy a Hummer because you'd save so much money by buying one. My arguments? GM wasn't sued by the BBB! GM paid their taxes! Does that prove Hummers are a good deal for you, as a buyer who needs a family car? Presumably, no-one would fall for such a stupid misdirection. But IBOs apparently often do!

Read. Decide for yourself.

Yes, you really should:

One point that continues to be re-iterated, that we must take issue with. The earlier poster suggests that if "you have a dream AND a work ethic", you will succeed. But I'm confused.

I thought the whole point of building that stupid business was so that you could be "free", and NOT work ever again. I can't tell you how many repetitive CD's I heard about lying in bed until noon, relaxing all day long, as a "free man". Aren't I the hard-working sucker that has to have a job for my entire life?

So who are the hard workers, the Quixuck IBO's, or the others who are working every day for all eternity; It surely can't be both.

Pro-Quixtar posters - please clarify for us dream-less losers.

Hey B. Franklin,

Could you repost your comments again, but this time try to come up with something original? I think every word you posted has been spewed by another IBO (probably word for word) at one time or another.

Funny thin about the other MLM's you mention (pampered chef, mary kay, etc.): they are all known around the nation for what they sell while Quixtar/Amway is known for being a scam.

You know, I never realized how unethical so many pro-Quixtar people could be until I happened to post a few articles on the topic.

Today, yet again, I discovered some clown posting a seemingly-endless stream of pro-Quixtar drivel (almost all of it answered elsewhere on the blog) under one assumed name ("B. Franklin", this means you), and then pretending to respond to his own post again under another assumed name!

Under the second name, he wrote -- right after just having made a huge long string of the same old tired (and irrelevant) pro-Quixtar arguments:

"I just checked out this site because I was looking for more info on Quixtar..."

LOL! No, buddy, you posted here again because something I, or someone else said upset you, and this is your way of fixating on it: by posting a long, rambling and already-answered rant, and then by pretending to just be a passerby who was deeply impressed with your own just-posted arguments.

Unsurprisingly, this is a common deception used by IBOs -- I've encountered it before, sadly. It's as though some of them have a compulsive need to lie and inflate their own presence. (Perhaps they realize how alone their are and can only resort to pretend agreement from imaginary allies?)

What is it about their twisty little brains that seeks so hard to deceive? Why not just post an honest counter-argument? Thanks, Mr. Anonymous IBO, for again demonstrating exactly where you stand, and with whom.

"Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed." (John 3:20)

"You are a child of the devil and an enemy of everything that is right! You are full of all kinds of deceit and trickery." (Acts 13:10)

Readers, again I ask you: is this the kind of organization you want to get involved with? One which tends to produce, over and over, defenders which log onto my blog, break the comment rules, insult everyone who disagrees with them, and pull tricks like pretending to be multiple, different people?

Even if I knew absolutely nothing else about the business, that kind of low ethics alone would be enough for me to caution you, in all sincerity: "Run! Avoid these people!"

let me know about your britt world wide buisness
full details, becuase i am new in this

narayana,
What i can tell you is that it is a wonderful opportunity...for the right person. the things i've learned in this business (leadership, goal-setting, team building/management, perserverance, servitude, and to some extent, a greater sense of spirituality) as well as the tremendous leaders i am associating with (people of integrity, character, honesty,)... well, i just can't put a price on this b/c i now have true role models to emulate in that their actions (on a daily basis)have proven to me time and again, that they do have your best interest in mind. now you may be thinking ?why would a stranger help me to acheieve my goals?? It's b/c they have a vested interest in helping you succeed, as we're paid a comission on doing so.
Now you can make some money on your own, but the real $$ is derived from developing teams, and identifiying the leaders (or at least those who are willing to learn so that they can effectively lead), and then passing down those principles you have learned (from your mentors).

This business is all about people, and raising them up to a higher level (financially and spiritually-if you allow it into your heart). what we do is teach people principles of leadership, which are based on principles that have been written long ago in the bible. please don't misunderstand, this is not some bible-thumping religious cult, where you'll be brinwashed into shaving your head, singing kumbuya,and following the Lord. But these leadership principles work - for proof, look no further than your Barnes and Noble. GO to the business section. JOhn Maxwell - he nearly has an entire section for himself. Donald Trump also bases many of his principles on the bible.

if you will take the time to approach this opportunity w/ an open mind (of course you'll want to exercise discernment as not everyone who gets involved is honorable - but those folks won't last long, b/c their character flaws will be revelaed over time), and not form any opinions until you have gathered enough CREDIBLE information such as the Better Business Bureau, Dunn & Bradstreet, etc - not just the stuff on this blog), you will see that we are legit. Let them prove it to you. allow them to go to work for you, and see if they are people of integrity. really, what do you have to lose? If you don't like it, you have 6 months to get a refund on your startup fee (approx $150). I hope this helps clear the air a bit, and that my post has at least opened your mind to do some research before making any decisions.
Best of luck to you (whaterver you decide).
-James

James,

Why are IBOs responses always so long? And why do they raise the same lame arguments which have been refuted over and over?

the things i've learned in this business (leadership, goal-setting, team building/management, perserverance, servitude, and to some extent, a greater sense of spirituality)...

Yes, you can learn some things by reading the books they want you to sign up for. But yes, you can also learn those same things without involving yourself in this silliness.

as well as the tremendous leaders i am associating with (people of integrity, character, honesty,)...

Yes, the wonderful leaders: such integrity! Did they remember to tell new IBOs that the average acttive IBO will make less than $115 a month! Or don't you think they'd want to know that? Or that they'd REALLY be required to do more than 8 hours a week? Ach, they don't need to know that either, right? Or that about 50% of IBOs drop out each year? Or doesn't a prospective IBO need to know that either???

Yeah, really ethical!

why would a stranger help me to acheieve my goals??

Because your "goals" are simply to provide them with the needed amount of consumption (read: "expediture by you or someone else") in the great hopes they can offset the huge debt they've incurred so far in this "business".

Now you can make some money on your own...

You know, like millionaires do...

but the real $$ is derived from developing teams...

Right, and having them develop teams, and having them develop teams, each incurring more debt as they go, in great hope YOU, at the top, will get $$RICH$$ off this greatly expanded volume of debt.

It's called a pyramid scheme. It may be legal, but that sure doesn't make it ethical. Or a good "investment" of your time and wealth.

This business is all about people...

Bull. The business is all about $$money$$. If it was all about "people" it'd be a volunteer organization like AA or the Salvation Army. Specifically, it's all about TAKING money: Yours.

Look, IBOs buy a TON of stuff. And "make" only $115 back in rebates on average. Figure it out.

i've learned in this business... a greater sense of spirituality... This business is all about people, and raising them up... spiritually-if you allow it into your heart

Spirituality? Yeah? What spirit is that? A spirit of greed? What does Quackstar encourage? Oh yeah, "dreams", of material things. But what did Jesus say?

Do not store up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy, and where thieves break in and steal. But store up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where moth and rust do not destroy, and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. (Matthew 6:19-21)

The "spirituality" promoted by Quackstar would seem opposed to that promoted by Jesus.

How do you "raise people up" by hiding the truth from them? By misleading them? By taking their money? Explain that to me, James.

please don't misunderstand, this is not some bible-thumping religious cult...

True! Instead of thumping some holy book, you read from books with vague messages about material "success" and emotional "confidence." And their endless creed and dogma is: "MY DREAMS! MY DREAMS! DREAMS! DREAMS! DREAMS!"

But these leadership principles work...

If you apply them to an actual business. Clearly, they don't "work" when tried inside Quixtar, or the average IBO wouldn't make less than minimum wage!

if you will take the time to approach this opportunity w/ an open mind...

Unlike yer average IBO, who is programmed to ignore any negative evidence...

not everyone who gets involved is honorable...

Not everyone? My, that's an understatment. Look at yourself, James. Why are you trying to sign people up for a "business" which would make them less than minimum wage? Care to explain? What is "honorable" about that?

Maybe you didn't know that. Great, well, then wouldn't it be "honorable" to admit you just learned something? Or perhaps my statement is wrong. Please be "honorable" enough to correct me?

But no, IBOs aren't interested in truth or doing whatever is best for their prospective recruits. Massively in debt as they are, they hungrily want to SIGN YOU UP so they can, they hope, finally start to break even in this pathetic scam.

not form any opinions until you have gathered enough CREDIBLE information such as the Better Business Bureau, Dunn & Bradstreet, etc...

What Quixtar is doing is certainly legal. But I'm aruging it's unethical and unprofitable for the average IBO. You can't resolve whether that's true by asking, only: "Is this legal?"

And as far as Dunn & Bradstreet, James has just showed he knows NOTHING about business, but is blindly repeating what his uplines have taught him to say. D&B is a business LISTING service. Just that: a directory of businesses. It's like telling someone the "proof" that you're a good business is that you have a Yellow Pages ad! Hilarious, James!

So you can see that he himself hasn't done this "research" he speaks of, or he might have at least learned what D&B WAS. Instead, he is just repeating, puppet-like, his indoctrination.

And yes, this is a business cult.

Definitely, I encourage anyone to do a bit of research. Ask yourself two simple questions:

(A) IS THIS ETHICAL? Do I have to hide information from my prospects? Will I be free to tell them what the average IBO makes? Was information hidden from me by MY IBO-friend? Do I encourage others to get into debt in order to get me out of it?

(B) IS THIS PROFITABLE? What DOES the average IBO make? Is Tim right about that? (And why won't IBOs answer his argument?) Am I *really* being told how many hours I'll have to work? Or is my own sponsor apparently working more than she's telling me I'll have to? How many millionaire IBOs has this "system" produced? Why won't they tell me that?

Good luck!

I have 1 question if the IBO's don't mind answering.

Are these so called "retired IBO's" really retired or just working for a different business?

When i retire i want to sit at home, take trips. Not go recruit people, meetings and seminars.

One of the speakers i had said his wife was retired but yet she went to all the meetings and seminars with him and did recruiting while she was shopping. That sounds like work not retirement to me.

If you try to argue that it's "building a business" give it a break cause that's not "true" retirement.

This business is working for me!

You want your questions answered this is not the right place for getting information. Get information from people who have become successful "the one who is making the money" he will help you to plan for your future.

If you want to play it safe, setting up an business can never be much safer that this! Low risk, less time involved and an system for every one.

Its upto you to take advantage of it or you are still stuck in the rat race. You choose.

If you are working in a full time job you would realise that you have spent a lot of money to get that job! the money spent on education for 10 to 18yrs is an very high price paid to the low paid job you currently have, compared to the returns from this business for the investment in education from BWW.

And in terms of time, 18yrs is a lot of time in itself and working 6 to 12hrs per day, 5 to 7 days a week for a job is a much bigger price than time spent for this system.

Its your life and your choice, All the Best.

Regards,
Sanjit Oliver
Profession: HR Consultant

You want your questions answered this is not the right place for getting information.

Right! Because the IBOs who post here won't answer simple, basic questions put to them. Example: "Jamie" asks a simple, straightforward question. And "Sanjit" responds by telling her not to read the information posted here.

Very convincing!

Thank you Tim, My point exactly either they avoid the question or they answer it with a question.

I ask the same question to a "succesful" IBO. The answer i recieved was. "do you like where your working at now? Do you like all the hard work you do? With Quixtar your not confined and you get to meet new people everyday.?

Way to dodge the bullet on that one, my question is totally answered.

Still sound like retirement, I think not!

This is not the only bull that i don't belive. I figured everyone was getting the rest i would just tackle ONE single answer about something that should be so SIMPLE to answer. You NEVER retire until you save up like everyone else.

They say it's not a pyramid scheme because (1 of the reasons i heard) Because if your an inactive IBO you don't earn money off of "your" IBO's.

So a reasonable person would STOP and THINK, How can i still make money and "retire"? Easy with this system you CAN'T. You don't continue to make money, and do you have any clue nowdays how much it would take for you to have saved up to live comfortably and still "retire" at 30 or even 40.

Anonymous person:

I want to respond to your request with a posting, but your particular question requires, for a quality answer, a bit more time than I'll probably have in the next two days.

So watch this spot and, God willing, I hope I'll be able to write down some thoughts for you before the weekend is out.

Cami wrote:

"If it were a pyramid you would first of all have quotas that you would have to meet. In this business if you don't want to grow you don't have to. If you don't want to buy the products you don't have to. In a pyramid you can never make more money than the person above you. The top person makes the most. Quixtar is simply not this way. Any person willing to put in the hard work can achieve higher status than those upline. The final reason why it's not a pyramid is that your business is done directly with Quixtar, the person above you is not your boss."

No, totally wrong. An illegal pyramid scheme is defined by whether or not funds coming into the "pyramid" are primarily from outside sources (i.e. retail customers) or whether they are coming from others who are also looking to profit from the pyramid's operations, the latter of which makes the pyramid illegal due to the simple law of mathematics where in order for a few people to profit, many others have to lose.

The distinction between legal & illegal pyramids has nothing at all to do with who is above who, who is making more money than who, or who joined before who.

Can you answer the question about the promise of being able to "retire" and have residual income. If you are no longer out recruiting then you don't make any money, right (because then you've stopped working hard at making your upline and they've passed you).

If they are lying about this start thinking about everything else they say in detail. Listen to their answers they are ALWAYs formed in a question back towards you.

I'm not telling anyone not to do this, but stop and think like any responsible finacial investment. Ask questions, research all sides before jumping in.

Hi Tim:

Excellent points that you are bringing up with your postings here. However, I do disagree with one remark that you made above:

"What Quixtar is doing is certainly legal. But I'm aruging it's unethical and unprofitable for the average IBO. You can't resolve whether that's true by asking, only: "Is this legal?"

Quixtar, on the contrary, is operating ILLEGALLY in the business world, by the simple fact that they never enforce their own rules for their distributor force to obtain a certain level of their product volume from sales to outside customers in the marketplace.

By looking the other way towards their own IBO force's practice of "buying from yourself and teaching others to do the same", Quitar is in effect promoting an illegal pyramid scheme amongst it's "sales force", regardless of what the FTC ruled on their case back in 1979.

I have nothing against Quixtar as a business. I think that if you have the ambition and persistence, an MLM can be successful.... My brother has said before that the one solid thing in his life is scripture. He believes God's Word beyond a shadow of a doubt, but I feel that BWW has manipulated the scripture to their use.... If anyone has any advice, I'd appreciate it.

This isn't really true, I was thinking about signing up, not through Brit but through BWW to do the Quixtar thing too. It is true that most of the volume comes through "being your own best customer" because they sell everything including name brand things, but the importance is that you can't be successfull unless you help others do it as well. The people above you have to help you succeed or they don't get jack.

It is true they make alot of cash on seminars and tapes, but thats called "being smart". It's kinda like how macdonalds decided to sell other things instead of just burgers. It is a business where you need those motivational stuff and requires you to be active and help others do the same.

I have an aunt and uncle that have been doing it for about 5 or so years and they quit thier day jobs already and and are going to make diamond.

As far as initial investment, it's like 100 bucks or so who gives a flipping crap about 100 bucks? Any business or school requires an investment with low or no return at first. Give people a break if they don't want to always trade hours for money. I see a system that says I can't be successfull if I don't make others successful, and the people above me have nothing to gain unless I do as well.

It is true that most of the volume comes through "being your own best customer"...

Right. You make a lot of money by buying things for yourself. At an increased price. So you can get a discount.

It is true they make alot of cash on seminars and tapes, but thats called "being smart"...

Because they sell you something you don't need. Except that you do. To help you buy products. For yourself.

I have an aunt and uncle that have been doing it for about 5 or so years and they quit thier day jobs already and and are going to make diamond...

And *I* have a gold mine for sale...

As far as initial investment, it's like 100 bucks or so who gives a flipping crap about 100 bucks?

Can IBOs actually READ? Apparently not. Where has anyone here complained about the startup fee?

IBOs make irrelevant statements like this because they can't refute the central points being made here: That this is NOT a profitable business, since the average active IBO only makes $115 per month, and that's it's not ethical, because what few profits are made come from creating many, many more failures.

Dave wrote:

but the importance is that you can't be successfull unless you help others do it as well.

this should actually read:

"but the importance is that you can't be successfull unless you help others erroneously all think that they can do it as well".

And when those "others" eventually find out that they are involved with a shameful negative-sum pyramid scheme, they get replaced by the next batch of naive suckers.

...The people above you have to help you succeed or they don't get jack.

Actually, it's the lower echelon that's helping the top dogs succeed, and it's the former that "don't get jack".

It is true they make alot of cash on seminars and tapes, but thats called "being smart".

But being smart doesn't necessarily equate to being moral & ethical.

Colombian drug lords are also "smart".

It's kinda like how macdonalds decided to sell other things instead of just burgers.

Very poor analytical comparison here. McDonald's in the business of selling food products to the consuming public, whether those products be burgers, salads, shakes, pies etc...; whereas the motivational tools & seminars that Quixtar provides are only supposed to be a secondary support feature to what it's main purpose is supposed to be of distributing various consumable goods and services to end users in the marketplace.

Hey mlmscam, good to see you my man.

mlmscam, well said!

to learn realiy of amway quixtar go to www.merchants of deception.com

What i have noticed that there are more than 90% asians involved in this scam, and all from india and pakistan and they work as couples, mostly husband and wife. I am talking about UK where they are working under BWW, in first instance i was really shocked to see how they try to attract you, this reminds me Resident Evil the movie, where one can affect other and than other goes on hunting with him, its working in same way but wonder how one can get affected, very wired, anyway i give damn to this BWW s***.

The quixtar recruiters will try to lure you in with common sense things like "save 30%" by using quixtar. Quixtar pays out 33% of their profits as a bonus back to the IBO's.

You'd be a fool not to get in right?

Let's take a fast quiz. Answer this question.
How does Quixtar give 33% of their profits back to the IBO's?

A. Quixtar operates at a loss so the IBO's can prosper.

B. Quixtar's founders are generous so they don't want to make any money.

C. Quixtar magic.

D. Quixtar charges in excess of 33% so Quixtar can make a profit, and seemingly return a nice bonus to the IBO's.

Guess what? The correct answer is "D".
Anyone care to refute that?

What i have noticed that there are more than 90% asians involved in this scam, and all from india and pakistan and they work as couples, mostly husband and wife.

True, same in North America.

I'm from Pakistan.

They're mostly sharp, relatable and VERY intelligent ppl. (if you can block out the accent and our other desi quirks)

Signing up at Quixtar: $78
BWW Intro pack: $150
First seminar expenses: $400

Showing americans the AMerican WAY, priceless.

To the anonymous individual who posted the above:

You're a complete jackass thinking that you can give your opinion on others while telling them at the same time to mind their own business.

Why don't you just worry about yourself then, instead of coming on here and shooting off your hole, thinking that you're mightier than thou, shmuck.

Tim:

Help me out here. I'm up against a tough bully with no name. This guy (or gal) is too intimidating for me to handle all by myself. I knew I should have quit while I was ahead.

You are right about one thing though. I am mightier than you, because you never know; you may work for me, Joe.

Holy s--t, Mr. Tyler, is that really you??? LOL

Thanks for the office lunch you treated all of us to today btw!

I hope anyone who decides to get into this realizes that it is a trend, not a business... You cannot compare this to McDonald's or Taco Time... Those are businesses, however I prefer to compare it to the growing and disgutingly over promoted trend of Texas Hold'Em or any poker for that matter...

Yeah, but at least in those games the contestants all know what the odds are before they start playing - that in order for there to be winners, others have to lose.

With the quixtar business the kingpins lie thru their teeth right from the opening bell - by claiming that everybody who wants to succeed will financially succeed, when in truth that is mathematically impossible in a closed pyramidal buying club.

Hey anonymous, you still out there my idiotic friend?

Help me out here. I'm up against a tough bully with no name. This guy (or gal) is too intimidating for me to handle all by myself. I knew I should have quit while I was ahead...

Hehe, gimme a break, mlmscam!

I sometimes think about simply turning off all comments on these threads because the IBOs never seem able to come up with anything new to say.

But I can't resist a few comments, anyway...

(Oh, and let's drop with the name-calling, lest I have to purge the whole discussion, mkay?)

I have a question for everybody. If you died tonight, would you go to heaven or hell? ... I believe this is much more important that what is being blogged here.

And if you'd examine the blog as a whole, you'd find that entire topic occupies much more real estate than Quixtar-related comments. But people seem to want to debate Quixtar more than, amazingly, God.

Also, please note that my take is that Quixtar is a betrayal and enemy of Jesus's teachings, and Christian values.

... do you do this as the little guy against some great evil...

I do this because I want people who have questions to hear both sides of the story. At the business meeting, I only heard one side presented.

... or is it because you are jealous of people that are willing to take a chance at anything to try to move forward or already have accomplished great things in Quixtar.

If you'd actually bother to read my posts on the subject, you'd find your allegations here make no sense: I believe Quixtar pays its average IBO $115 per month, before expenses -- working out to a fraction of minimum wage. How could one possibly be "jealous" of that level of "success"?

I hope that you are making money off of this site...

I make not a single penny. If I did want to do this for money, I'd run ads.

... because you are not hurting Quixtar's profits nor any other MLM, since most of the bigger names are still around no matter what anybody says about them.

For some reason, Quixtar always reminds me of liberalism. As a recoving semi-liberal, one of the things which I noticed about liberals is that they were alway obsessed with the rich and powerful. Every policy was analysed like this: "Does this hurt the rich? Does this make the rich wealthier? Does this allow the rich to still be rich?"

My questions had nothing to do with the rich: My questions were "does this help the poor?" Sometimes, the same polices which help the poor also help the rich. So what? Will we hurt the poor in order to "stick it to" the wealthy? (Answer: Often, apparently yes.)

Likewise, you seem to think I'm obsessed with "hurting" or "stopping" some huge scam, like Quixtar. I could care less: What I want is for any prospective IBOs who want to know the truth about whether they'd be hurting or helping themselves and others, to have one more opportunity to hear important information, and thus save themselves heartache.

I don't care if this means five people or five million: I'm focused on that person, not Quixtar, nor the thousands of IBOs who don't wanna hear they might be harming themselves and others, and just want to feel justified.

No different than WalMart, Microsoft, IBM, etc. You can go find a blog on any of these "evil" corporations.

Again, you'd do better if you actually read my arguments against Quixtar -- which again demonstrates how (deliberately?) uninformed the average pro-Quixtar commenter here is.

If you did read my arguments about Quixtar you would dicover I'm actually conservative and in favor of business and trade, not against it. The reason I -- and others, as you can plainly see -- oppose Quixtar is because it it NOT a business in the sense those others are.

Quixtar IBO's, get a life also. You are trying to persuade the unpersuadable...

I'm *quite* persuadable, and have changed my mind on many topics. But to persuade, one would have to post information, evidence or a good counter-argument -- not merely speculate on the low morals of everyone who posts here, or accuse them beforehand of being closed-minded.

This website is a cult and there are many other "cults" that people belong to... Definition: cult: great devotion to a person, idea, object, movement, or work.

Interesting definition of "cult" -- a single web page is now, according to you, a "cult." I suppose watching the evening news -- something which attracts far more participants -- is then also certainly a "cult."

I spend 40-60 hours a week at work. I spend about 1-2 hours a week posting comments on the blog, only a small fraction of which relate to Quixtar. In fact, you've posted several comments in ratio to this one response of mine -- I am speaking to you less than you've spoken to me on the topic. So who has more "devotion" here?

So, um, are the 20 minutes a week are "cult-like" behavior, but the workplace isn't? What is TV then, since most people watch hours of that each day? You can prove just about anything if your definitions are flexible enough, I suppose.

Yes you can get a job at any place make good money and still start a blog, tearing down the place with your own philosophies...

I think people who are interested deserve a chance to hear some people's experience with, and thoughts about, Quixtar.

Again, I personally didn't first post a few observations on this topic because I felt it would "destroy Quixtar" or some such thing, but because I myself had a few experiences, learned a few things, and felt it might be helpful to share that with others who were interested -- and might possibly save a few people some lost time, expense, and grief. If that's an evil motive to you, well, then so be it.

And in this case, I'm simply giving your own comments the courtesy of a reply, as I often do on most topics where people comment here. I simply don't treat this thread any differently.

I find it odd how this incurs so much judgement from visitors like yourself, who seem obsessed with worrying about my inner thoughts, motives, income (from the blog or elsewhere) or time usage.

What is it that you are so threatened by?

Tim,
I wonder what ever happened to Tom back in DEC 2004?

Imran

You are right, but they always give pitch to their own people, if they are really sharp and VERY intelligent, than why don't they go for AMerican people? by the way I am from Pakistan aswell.

Reason: Every one in north America have heard about Quixtar / Amway. With immigrants there's a chance you can find ppl who are new and haven't heard amway / Quixtar / MLM .... yet.

We had been in halls filled with Indian / Pakistanis. No other ethnicity.

This is how I see it. If you do not put in the effort, you will not be successful at this business. If you are lazy, unmotivated you will fail. Plain and simple. But then again....that goes for any business that you start, traditional or Quixtar. I am involved in this business and have had my ups and downs, however, everytime I put in the consistent effort, my business has grown. If I got lazy, it showed. As far as them making money on tools, I could care less. The people that produce the "tools" have to be paid, and I am sure their are other costs involved. Bottom line, I am getting information that helps me in every facet of my life....not just in this business. How much do music artists make on the CD's they make?? Do you get mad because they are making money off of you too?? Would I rather spend $7 on a motivational CD that I will use the knowledge from it for the rest of my life, or spend $15 on a hip-hop CD that I will likely not listen to in a year? Do you get mad because the music company made money, the artist made money, the producer and recording studio made money, the art designner for the album cover made money, etc etc?? It's pretty simple guys. Don't get mad because someone is making a few bucks off of you. Look at the bigger picture...if you use this to knowledge to your advantage, you could be financially free in a few years. Do most fail??? Yes. They do. But the only reason the fail is that they are not willing to do what it takes. Show 5 plans a week for 2-5 years, and do the steps they teach consistently, and you cannot fail. It just doesn't happen.

If you decide to join this business, I will give a few words of advice. Do NOT join if you just want to "try" it. YOU WILL FAIL!!! If you join, make a commitment to yourself to do WHATEVER IT TAKES. If you do this, and stay close to a growing upline, you will succeed.

Success is more about a positive mentality than anything else. If you think you cannot do something you are completely right. But then again, if you are sure you can do something...again you are completely right!!

I am one that knows I can do anything that I set my mind to, and I will not accept anything less.

This is how I see it. If you do not put in the effort, you will not be successful at this business.

How about ppl who do put effort in this business?