Bono & Jesus
Faith and Philosophy
| December 1, 2004
| Tim
I was a U2 fan way back before they were hugely popular. I liked their message of faith and peace in the face of the the Irish conflict. Sadly, Bono seems have gone over to the dark side lately.
Bono:
The trick in the next few years will be not to decry the religious instinct, but to accept that this is a hugely important part of people's lives. And at the same time to be very wary of people who believe that theirs is the only way. Unilateralism before God is dangerous.
You mean, like the evil guy who said this:
I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
Perhaps Bono needs to have a good sit-down with Jesus to help him correct his "dangerous" exclusive views. Imagine how greatly Jesus would have benefitted had Bono been there to explain to him that, no, salvation was available by other means and he didn't actually need to be crucified. Think of all the bloodshed, suffering, and agony Bono could have spared Jesus.
And the disciples too, not to mention all those early Christians, so many of whom died for the rather closed-minded idea that Greek and Roman deities were not equally good means of salvation. Bono could have just held a big concert to explain it to them. "Aid4Idiots" or something like that.
And Bono needs to have a word with me too, for being such a "dangerous" fool as to believe and trust that misguided man, Jesus, regarding his apparently-wrong "unilateral" claims. I wish I could be righteous, like Bono. Instead, my faith makes me a danger to society and a plague to the world.
I know, I know. I'm only supposed to kind-of believe in Jesus. I was supposed to assume Jesus was sort-of right when he said sin was separated man from God, but that he was wrong, or it was a mere myth, when he said he was the only cure to that problem. What a ridiculous idea!
I am a fool, of course. All those years I've spent learning about every major world religion I could find. All that time I spent considering becoming an atheist! The years I looked into the New Age movement! All the discussions I had with relativists! And all that time I spent trying to figure out what to think about the historical Jesus, by reading from critic and supporter alike: what a complete fool I was!
Little did I know all answers were right: The bible is faithful, and Jesus died on the cross; he is the only way to God. And Mohammad is God's final prophet, Jesus did not die on the cross, and the bible has been badly distorted by Christians and Jews. Jesus was the messiah, an Essene, a follower of Hillel, an Eastern mystic, a visiting space alien, a scientist, a misunderstood peasant, and an hallucination. God is personal, as Jesus claimed, and we only live once. And God is not personal, as Buddhists claim, and we are endlessly reincarnated. And Ayn Rand is correct when she says there is no God at all, no afterlife, and all religious beliefs are detrimental. We must perform human sacrifice, as the Mayans claimed. And killing any soul is wrong, as the Jains claim.
These are all simultaneously correct; they are all equally true and valid.
How I wasted my time thinking through these and many other conflicting options. Certainly, I should have admired these ideas for their diversity and beauty -- as one admires orchids or roses one passes by. But I should not have considered that any such ideas might have been potentially important, or subject to rational thought and analysis. I am a fool, and illogical for having such thoughts. My critics, on the other hand, who reject the use of logic on such ideas, are wise and rational.
Logic, and primarily the exclusionary principle -- that if "A" is true, then "not A" is false and excluded -- is the basis for all science and rational thought. Apply it to religious propositions, and you are a fool in the eyes of the word. "Narrow minded!" "Simplistic EITHER/OR thinking!" "Bigoted!" Yet assert such propositions are false -- even if your conclusion is based on clear logical fallacies or was made for social or emotional reasons, bereft of even a shred of rationality -- and then you are instantly "rational."
Ah, but the problem isn't belief per se. It's that I, like that evil George Bush, am so SURE of my beliefs that I have closed my mind to all other possibilities. Or so I am told, apparently by mind-readers. Critics like Bono, on the other hand, are certainly NOT AT ALL SURE of their main belief: that exclusive belief is bad, wrong, and harmful. Haha -- just joking! They believe it and pursue it with a religious zeal unmatched since the crusades: "It's only wrong for others to be exclusive. We must then be even more exclusive! They say some may be excluded from heaven? We must then act to exclude them on earth!" Excluding the exclusive isn't merely a hilarious irony for theses folks -- it's an actual fanatical belief system they pursue with ever-increasing dogmatic vigor.
Unless we agree Hitler went to heaven, we must be exterminated with the Jews.
Bono:
To have faith in a time of religious fervor is a worry. And, you know, I do have faith, and I'm worried about even the subject because of the sort of fanaticism that is the next-door neighbor of faith.
Some people follow Bono around, buy his every album, and breathlessly await his advice on every topic, probably including on theology. They give him awards and defend his every bizarre or lewd action, and spend more money on music and concerts than they donate to charity or religion. We call these people "U2 fans" which is short for "U2 fanatics". Is this a problem for Bono? Not that I've ever heard.
But be a little too serious about Jesus and you're "dangerous," and Bono is worried about you.
In Bono's world, this is a "time of religious fervor". Compared to what? Last I checked, church attendence is declining in the US and Australia, and secularism is rising. Europe is already deeply secular, but showing signs of a pagan resurgence. Confidence in religious organizations is at an all-time low. The mainstream media is clueless about, if not overtly hostile to, traditional Christian faith. Of course, I can say that because I've considered the evidence and data regarding such trends. What would I know, compared to a rock star who can just pull the opposite conclusion out of nowhere?
And since I believe Jesus is "the way, the truth, the life" (with "the" and not "a" before each phrase), I am, according to Bono, a religious fanatic. And now he tells us such "fanaticism" is not actually faith, but is instead the "next-door neighbor of faith." In other words, I don't actually have faith. Bono, though, does. I am a false Christian. Bono is the real deal. No, nothing exclusive there.
Well, it's always sad to hear a guy I liked, such as Bono, declare that I'm "dangerous" and his (and everyone's) enemy, and hear from him that I don't actually have faith in Jesus. Odd, since I've never had a harsh word for him until today. Well, if he has declared that I'm his enemy, according to my belief that means I'll have to pray for him, still.
I guess that's the "danger" of people like me.
i want to know,despite of this discucion if bono consider himself a real christian.
Of course Bono considers himself a real Christian. And it's not my job to sort out where he stands with God -- that's between him and his creator.
There is one essential doctrine -- believing the biblical Jesus died for one's sins -- and a lot of more minor points. Thankfully, I believe God is patient with us when we're messed up in those minor points. If not, who could be saved?
My point isn't to judge Bono, but to point out he is judging me. My point isn't to judge whether his faith is authentic, but to point out he has clearly stated my own beliefs aren't. My point isn't to be intolerant towards Bono, but to point out his ideas are profoundly intolerant towards traditional biblical Christians.
He says people who believe they are right are "dangerous". And indeed that is true sometimes -- and I would point his case as prime example. He has an exclusivist faith, which denies the genuineness of other exclusivist faiths. But the reason his is particularly dangerous is that it's based in a lie, and a self-contradiction, whereas I simply admit it.
This lead me merely to say he's doctrinally wrong, yet it leads him to judge the quality of other people's faith, and paint them as a menace to society.
And I don't think I need to belabor the historical point of where that usually leads...
Anyone who does not say, or believe that Jesus is the only way to the Father, and is the only way to righteousness for a human, is not a Christian - unless God tells me differently.
I was the first U2 fan in High School in 1983 - people actually called me Bono because I was such a big fan of his....but, truth is revealed, hard to swallow or not. "they went out from us, because they were not of us"
Everything I've read about Bono leads me to believe he is a Christian, but he admits it is a hard thing to live up to, I can identify with him because he admits he is flawed like all of us but is holding on to God's grace, however I would like an explanation of that comment because as you said...
"I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."
I still think he is a good guy, he's certainly helped me gain my faith
I agree. I think Bono should have been more clear about what he believes. However, I heard an intersting revelation from a fellow saved, Spirit-fille Christian about this quote. For starters, this was the tale end of a quote. I don't remember the exact words but he was mainly talking about the religious wars and fighting between the different sects and denominations in Ireland, where he is from. This individual offered the explanation, that perhaps what Bono meant by this quote, was to be suspicious of people who claim their "denomination" or "sect" is the only way, as many Catholics, and other denominations too. She explained that while all these denominations may believe Jesus is the Only Way (obviously correct), they have all adopted their own religious doctrine that often times does not line up w/the Word of God. She believes, as do I that Bono was trying to warn people to stay away from specific "religious groups" that say Jesus is Savior, but only for them and those that follow their doctrine and not the one doctrine of Jesus. If you would like further proof of Bono's belief that Jesus in the Messiah and Savior I have posted the following quotes taken from an interview w/Bono from a book called "Bono: In Conversation" from Mitch Assayas(sp) who interviewed him for this book. Important note: Assayas is NOT a believer.
Bono: You see, at the center of all religions is the idea of Karma. You know, what you put out comes back to you: an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth, or in physics—in physical laws—every action is met by an equal or an opposite one. It’s clear to me that Karma is at the very heart of the Universe. I’m absolutely sure of it. And yet, along comes this idea called Grace to upend all that “as you reap, so will you sow” stuff. Grace defies reason and logic. Love interrupts, if you like, the consequences of your actions, which in my case is very good news indeed, because I’ve done a lot of stupid stuff.
Assayas: I’d be interested to hear that.
Bono: That’s between me and God. But I’d be in big trouble if Karma was going to finally be my judge. I’d be in deep shit. It doesn’t excuse my mistakes, but I’m holding out for Grace. I’m holding out that Jesus took my sins onto the Cross, because I know who I am, and I hope I don’t have to depend on my own religiosity.
Assayas: The son of God who takes away the sins of the world. I wish I could believe in that.
Bono: But I love the idea of the Sacrificial Lamb. I love the idea that God says: Look, you cretins, there are certain results to the way we are, to selfishness, and there’s mortality as part of your very sinful nature, and let’s face it, you’re not living a very good life, are you? There are consequences to actions. The point of the death of Christ is that Christ took on the sins of the world, so that what we put out did not come back to us, and that our sinful nature does not reap the obvious death. That’s the point. It should keep us humbled… It’s not our owngood works that get us through the gates of Heaven.
Assayas: That’s a great idea, no denying it. Such great hope is wonderful, even though it’s close to lunacy , in my view. Christ has his rank among the world’s
great thinkers. But Son of God, isn’t that farfetched?
Bono: No, it’s not farfetched to me. Look, the secular response to the Christ story always goes like this: he was a great prophet, obviously a very interesting guy, had a lot to say along the lines of other great prophets, be they Elijah, Muhammad, Buddha, or Confucius. But actually Christ doesn’t allow you that. He doesn’t let you off that hook. Christ says, No. I’m not saying I’m a teacher, don’t call me teacher. I’m not saying I’m a prophet. I’m saying: “I’m the Messiah.” I’m saying: “I am God incarnate.” And people say: No, no, please, just be a prophet. A prophet we can take. You’re a bit eccentric. We’ve had John the Baptist eating locusts and wild honey, we can handle that. But don’t mention the “M” word! Because, you know, we’re gonna have to crucify you. And he goes: No, no, I know you’re expecting me to come back with an army and set you free from these creeps, but actually I am the Messiah. At this point, everyone starts staring at their shoes, and says: Oh, my God, he gonna keep saying this. So what you’re left with is either Christ was who He said He was—the Messiah—or a complete nutcase. I mean, we’re talking nutcase on the level of Charles Manson. This man was like some of the people we’ve been talking about earlier. This man was strapping himself to a bomb, and had King of the Jews” on his head, and was they were putting him up on the Cross, was going: OK, martyrdom, here we go. Bring on the pain! I can take it. I’m not joking here. The idea that the entire course of civilization for over half of the globe could have its fate changed and turned upside-down by a nutcase, for me that’s farfetched…
B*******. Be wary of those who say that THEIRS is the only way, not that Jesus is the only way. Bono has said that very thing countless times, and quite recently. I have absolutely no doubt about his faith.
Find something better to do. Go get to know this Jesus you claim to serve, instead of finding a reason to slander and point at other people.
Brittany,
Thanks for the clarifying quotes. But you're right, Bono was being rather vague there, and if he meant as a rebuttal to those who believe their particular sect is the only valid one, then it probably wasn't generally heard that way, as it doesn't say that. If he has a problem with some specific group (say, the Catholic church, who does have such a doctrine) he should name it rather than painting with such a broad brush.
Anonymous,
Be wary of those who say that THEIRS is the only way, not that Jesus is the only way.
But dear anonymous, Jesus *was* someone who said his was the only way, and suggested that way was rather narrow, not broad:
"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it." (Matt 7:13-14)
By Bono's own statement, Jesus is quite the bad guy, and I expect, whatever he meant, he is helping to whip up the already-rising secular fanaticism towards any who take Jesus seriously on this point.
Find something better to do. Go get to know this Jesus you claim to serve, instead of finding a reason to slander and point at other people.
Are you talking to me or Bono? I'm not running around calling my brothers and sisters "dangerous", "extremists" and "fanatics", friend, because I view my own brand of faith as better than theirs. Nor am I doing it in front of a secular press.
If you are so concerned about "slandering" and "pointing at" other people, then please be consistent in your alleged concern.
In my opinion, Bono's statement regarding his "fear" of exclusivist thinking is proof enough of his heart's condition. What further proof does one need to see a blatant disregard for the TRUE Gospel of Jesus Christ than a statement like this one that blasts individuals who take a staunch stand for Christ. Newsflash, this Jesus Christ that Bono so openly flashes around for everyone proclaimed himself as THE ONLY way to eternal life; and this eternal life is not lavished upon any happy go lucky individual who wants to jump on the "Christ" bandwagon because of all the great things he did and how he said we should treat each other. Just the opposite: Christ assured his true followers that the TRUE GOSPEL (which includes repentance of sins, self-hatred, self-denial, realization of our complete inability and inadequacy of attaining grace and saving ourselves) WOULD NOT be welcomed by the self-loving world into which we are to preach it. Jesus Christ did not die so that we could all "have a great life" and "be happy"; Christ died so that we could be reconciled to God the Father through the most acceptable sacrifice ever given. Before then, man was separated from God by his own sinful nature, and to this day this is still the case. There is no good in the flesh, regardless of how many dollars Bono raises for Africa or AIDS relief; there is only evil in the flesh, and we can only be set free from our sinful nature and a future in hell (which is very real for all who don't believe in Christ, his sacrifice, and their own need for a Savior) through JESUS CHRIST only.
This is not just some crazy opinion that I have come up with on my own. It is in fact substantiated over and over again through the New Testament teachings of Christ. It is my sincere belief that THE VERY TEACHINGS OF CHRIST THROUGH THE WORD OF GOD REVEAL THAT BONO IS A CHRISTIAN ONLY IN THE NOMINAL SENSE. Relief work and all that jazz is great and all, but it has no power to save the soul from eternal damnation. The only way that one can be saved from that scenario is through bowing in SUBMISSION and REVERENCE to Jesus Christ and the Father, admitting that there is no God but He and that apart from Him we are nothing. After that, our actions should profess our loyalty to Christ (and only Christ) as our lives take on a new meaning through our keeping the laws and commandments of Christ, as he demanded of his true believers. I cannot with a clear conscience and spirit count as a true brother in Christ one who acknowledges more than one way to eternal salvation. Indeed, Scripture proves that it is impossible for a true believer to make a real claim to Christ while acknowledging other religions. Call me a bigot, call me a fundamentalist nitpicker, call me anything you like...but I will NOT call Bono a Christian, because the fruit he bears IS NOT that of Jesus Christ.
Rather, I think Bono is leading countless numbers of fans down the broad path of destruction through his "Jesus is so cool and wants to heal the world" catch. The REAL Jesus of Scripture was staunchly against the world and everything in it, and I'll take him over Bono's seeker-sensitive Jesus any day. I will not apologize for anything I have said, because I feel convicted about this subject. That said, I expect plenty of you will tear me a new one on this forum because you buy into this "Following Jesus is Easy" crap that Bono and countless others are feeding you. If you want the real scoop on Jesus, check out the New Testament and deal with the facts instead of relying on Bono's New Age Jesus remarks to get you through. Salvation comes only to those who truly humble themselves to Christ and totally submit themselves to his Word. Thats the truth of Scripture, whether you want to believe it or not. Buddha, Mohammed, Confucius, etc...they are all lies. Only the Son of Man (aka Jesus Christ of Nazareth) is TRUTH...and the TRUTH will set you FREE (John 8:32).
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek. For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith for faith, as it is written, "The righteous shall live by faith." Romans 1:16
In my opinion, Bono's statement regarding his "fear" of exclusivist thinking is proof enough of his heart's condition...
Frankly, I don't know what's in other people's hearts; it's enough for me to respond to their words. I leave the ultimate judgments to God. I'm hoping Bono was just phrasing things poorly, swayed by a bit too much acclaim and need to distance himself from certain overstated arguments.
Bono is a fisher of men who distances himself from fundamentalists who do not seem to have Jesus in their hearts, only a distorted idea of Jesus in their minds.
Glenn,
What about the fruit of judgment against others? Is that a fruit of Jesus Christ?
Bono has done more to advertise a Christian agenda than most churches and he's reached more people with a Christian message than most evangelists. His "fruit" is that of love, peace, kindness and generosity... four qualities that are sadly missing from most Christians this day and age. Yes, Bono will occasionally swear. Yes, he will occasionally smoke, drink alcohol and (gasp!) act like a rock star. But when he is not doing these things that go against legalism more than they go against the teachings of Christ, he is working effortlessly to help those who cannot help themselves. Maybe it's the fact that some of these people have AIDS and a skin color different than yours that makes you uncomfortable with Bono's actions.
I have learned more about Jesus and scripture from Bono and U2 than all the churches I've attended combined. Maybe because while Bono sings about the love of Christ, most Christians seem to be busy pointing their fingers at others and parading in pride and self-adulation.
Just my humble opinion. God bless!
ray wrote: Bono is a fisher of men who distances himself from fundamentalists who do not seem to have Jesus in their hearts, only a distorted idea of Jesus in their minds.
Without producing evidence, the charge ("do not seem to have Jesus in their hearts, only a distorted idea") could be thrown against pretty much any Christian one doesn't like. That's why it's important to cite evidence, rather than (a) imagining motives for others, and then (b) passing judgments on those imagined motives, as ray is doing here.
Joel wrote: What about the fruit of judgment against others? Is that a fruit of Jesus Christ?
Sorry, Joel, but "non-judgmentalism" is NOT one of the fruits of the spirit. To the contrary, Jesus himself often had harsh things to say against false or harmful doctrines.
And I'm amused that the people who claim to be non-judgmental are those who also seem to have the most negative things to say about others! Another example:
His "fruit" is that of love, peace, kindness and generosity... four qualities that are sadly missing from most Christians this day and age.... Christians seem to be busy pointing their fingers at others and parading in pride and self-adulation.
Some do -- for example, right there, you're doing it. But I haven't noticed it to be worse among Christians than, say, among other groups. You seem to imply you feel Christians are among the worst people on earth, or particularly bad at any rate. I've attended a lot of churches -- and have a lot of non-Christian friends as well -- and haven't noticed the same trend. To the contrary, study after study seems to find that Christians, on average, are generally happier, more at peace, and give more to charity than their secular counterparts. (Not that there aren't kind and giving secularists, also.)
And, again, where is the evidence for these accusations? If you're saying Christian are particularly judgmental, then please give specific evidence -- vague accusations are never constructive. On the other hand, if they only "seem" (falsely) so, then why are you joining in the chorus against them? Shouldn't you be pushing back against false charges?
Just my humble opinion. God bless!
I might be a bit confused here, but what is "humble" about alleging most other Christians are engaged in a kind of sin you and a man you admire (falsely) imply you largely avoid? Don't you notice that by doing so, you're doing the exact thing you say is bad, "pointing fingers" at others, which you have said was wrong?
(I personally don't think it's wrong to make judgments. It's an important ability! But we should remember that the rules we make up to apply to others will be applied to us! You say being judgmental is bad. So do you judge others?)
I do understand: We try to distance ourselves from those awful "judgmental" "fundamentalists" so the world will approve of us. "We're not like them!" we yell, as Bono seems to imply above. (And as I have, sadly, at times.) The world wants us to speak badly about Christians as a whole, to unfairly slander our brothers and sisters, and *bam* we do it right on cue, repeating the false stereotypes we were taught.
I have no doubt you'll really dislike what I'm saying here. I'm sorry, and I don't mean to hurt your feelings, but you seem to have been a little too sucked into the world's way of thinking about things. My world is full of people who talk incessantly about how bad those "judgmental" religious people are, not realizing they're doing the precise thing they imagine others do.
I wish you well as well.
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i want to know,despite of this discucion if bono consider himself a real christian.
Posted by: javier on March 23, 2005 09:59 AM