Quixtar: Fake Capitalism
Quixtar
| December 19, 2004
| Tim
Recent, we're seeing a new trend in Quixtar discussion on this blog -- a trend which harkens back to the earliest days of Amway. It seems we're seeing more people who are at first re-selling Quixtar products to their friends for a while rather than jumping straight into doing "the plan".
For example, "tom" writes:
Tim, usually I wuold agree with you about the political blogs on this site, but I have to say you are dead wrong about Quixtar. I started in Novemember and I am making money. I am a full-time college student so I obviously do not have a ton of time to spend on this. I have not produced a single "loser" to earn my money. I have successfully sold the products on the Quixtar website that perform better an are cheaper than name brand store products. These products also have a 6-month satisfaction guranantee, which is not available in stores.
I have no IBO's underneath me, but when I do sign one up, I get absolutly nothing of the $47 sign-up fee or whatever it is. I get ZERO. It is not beneficial for me to merely sign people up and forget about them. I earn when they earn.
Tom misunderstands my warning about Quixtar, which is stated in numerous other articles on this blog. Again, and for the record, I am not in any way against buying things and re-selling them. Has anyone ever seen me caution people about Avon? Creative Memories? Pampered Chef? Mary Kay? No? Well, why not?
It's because I'm not a Marxist. I have no problem with buying things and re-selling them for a profit. This is a God-created activity, which has been happening as far back as we can observe. Honest, ethical trade wasn't viewed as somehow wrong or evil until Marx came along and renamed it "capitalism", and said he had a really neat alternative -- having the state own and control everything.
Quixtar wannabees (and there are many) who think I'm a Marxist or otherwise have a problem with buying and reselling things aren't getting what I'm saying. My objection is not against "trade" or "capitalism". Instead, my goal is to warn people about "the plan", which is not a form of trade, and has as much to do with free trade as Marx had to do with Roman Catholicism or good economics.
"The plan" is a process whereby you shift emphasis from reselling products to signing up new people. The focus goes from enjoying whatever you're buying, or re-selling the Quixtar products to your friends, to signing up new people. People are perhaps confused because these fundamentally different activities are both called "Quixtar".
Imagine I signed you up for "Timstar", and told you it was about being paid to eat pizza. Sure, why not? But then imagine I told you after several months that you were now going to have to start digging ditches in a field. You'd surely notice the change!
But Quixtar is more subtle. Apparently, some new recruits think it's about re-selling Quixtar products to their friends -- the same angle they used when they were Amway, back in the 70s and 80s. New IBOs will probably not notice when the focus shifts on re-selling products -- a completely legitimate activity -- to "the plan".
From the Quixtar marketers' point of view, this is probably a good technique. As we can see in Tom's case and Jeff's case, it can give the new IBO an initial positive experience which may help to bond them to the brand emotionally. If so, this will help two ways when the focus shifts from reselling to the plan: (1) They will be more enthusiastic signing up new IBOs because they can say (of the reselling, but not of "the plan") "It works!" (2) the initial positive experience may keep them in Quixtar and buying product (which is where Quixtar makes the $$$) longer before quitting.
The Plan: Fake Capitalism
Imran Aziz, a former Quixtar IBO and current critic who shows up here, and who is apparently not a political conservative, once said something to the effect that he liked my arguments against Quixtar because they were conservative ones.
I see his point: Quixtar markets itself as being red-white-and-blue, as being "conservative", as being in favor of business, as being "capitalist", and -- though it's careful not to exclude any other religion, or tie itself to one faith -- often markets itself (to Christians) as either being explicitly Christian or at least Christian-friendly. Since I criticize it using conservative economic and religious princicples, that's fun, funny, and ironic. A taste of their own medicine, one might say.
But I'm not merely playing a game. Fun though it may be to watch, I'm enough of a dupe to actually believe in those principles. When I say Quixtar violates the rule of "do unto others", that's not a convenient argument I'm adopting just long enough to make it against Quixtar. I'm serious about that, or sincerely try to be anyway. When I say Quixtar activity generates no economic value, it's because I actually believe it, and think that's a tragedy.
What is "the plan"?
"The plan" is the process whereby you think you will make money and achieve financial security by signing up more people. This NOT a form of capitalism. It is NOT like McDonald's or Walmart, or whatever example your upline IBO gave you. When you bought a meal from McDonald's, did they ask you to start your own franchise? No. The owner of that store would probably be very unhappy if you started one up the street from him. That difference should tell you something.
But with "the plan", people start to believe they will make money not primarily by reselling things, but by recruiting new IBOs. And getting them to sign people up. And so on.
Think about a chain letter. You get a letter with five people's names in a list. You are told to send them all $10, cross off the top name, add yours to the end, and then mail copies to five of your friends. If you do this, and they do too, you will make nearly $400,000.
Question: Do you do this? Why not?
I don't, because I realize it violates the "do unto other rule". If I pay the money upline, I incur a $50 debt. In order to pay that off, I have to "pass the hot potato" to five more people, who will collectively now generate a $2500 debt if they pay up -- whereas I will now have a $2450 profit. Unless they want to get stiffed, they have to pass the hot potato on further, creating even more debt. Eventually, many get holding the bag, bilked.
Would I want to be stuck with a $50 debt? Of course not! Then how can I think it's ethical to pass one along to five more people and increase the damage five-fold? And so on, until thousands or millions get burned?
Another question: Is this a form of trade? Of capitalism? No, it's a shell game. It is no more a form of economic activity than a game of poker or taxation. It doesn't create any new wealth or a valued service. Instead, like taxes, the lottery, or a game of poker, it's a form of wealth redistribution, not creation.
Think of the chain letter again. Now what if, instead of just sending the money upline directly, you arranged for that transfer to happen each time I went shopping at my local store. I'd join a club, and when I went shopping, they'd meet me at the checkout, add $10 to the total cost of my purchases, and send that extra amount to one of the names above me on the chain letter.
Does that change anything?
No. It doesn't. But it looks slicker, and it's harder to figure out there are two unrelated activities -- the chain letter and my shopping -- going on. They're bundled together simply to confuse me and get me to join the chain letter -- an activity you or I would never embrace otherwise.
Quixtar is like that.
Quixtar: Fake Capitalists
So Quixtar isn't capitalism. Instead, it's merely a form of wealth redistribution, like socialism, but kind of backwards, like the lottery, where a lot of poor people pay in money to make one person rich. It involves work, yes, but so does being a lawyer. The key point is that that work doesn't generate new wealth.
So why does Quixtar come across as "Republican" or otherwise "conservative" organization? Why is there, apparently, some (small, as far as I can see) Republican support for Quixtar?
For one, they want people who are willing to work. Of course, the work is to spread "the plan", not improve a product or service. But by presenting themselves as a "business", they select for the right sorts of people.
Also consider the main vice Quixtar exploits is greed.
Now there's nothing wrong with wanting to earn a few extra bucks, or do a good job. Just as there's nothing wrong with wanting to eat. But in order to get people out of their day jobs, it is my experience that Quixtar tries to instill a dissatisifaction with one's current situation, and a longing for excessive luxuries beyond the wonderful variety already afforded to the average US citizen. For many people who are already reasonably well-off, this may push them to an unhealthy extreme.
And if greed is your vice, and you don't work for the goverment or university, conservative politices are generally the ones you'll support.
Now, I'm not saying all conservatives are greedy. In fact, many of the conservatives I know have money pretty far down their list of priorties. But if you're motivated by a desire for wealth, today's Republican party has the right stances to allow it. And that's a good thing, in my book.
Note that I am not saying greed is good. Of course not. Greed, as an unhealthy desire for wealth, is a sin. But think: gluttony, an unhealthy desire for food, is a sin too. Because gluttony is a sin, would I support a political party whose policies would lead to starvation? Of course not. I'd rather choose the one which made more food available, and allowed gluttony to be possible. Likewise, I'd rather have a party which made more economic opportunity available, and allowed the greedy to channel their vice into useful work, rather than a party whose policies tended to create unemployment and laziness.
Finally, Republican politicians are torn between the desires of big businesses -- who want to grow the power of government in order to stop competition -- and actual conservative principles, which desire to enhance competition and limit the power of government.
So Republican leaders sometimes support things actual conservatives are opposed to. There's nothing new in that. For example, the US steel industry wants to limit competition keep domestic steel prices high by preventing foreign competition. George Bush caves into the pressure and adopts their position, briefly. Does that mean opposing free trade is a "conservative" belief?
Of course not.
(Some Democrats may also be feeling rather smug in that I've said that if one's vice is greed, one might be attracted to the Republican Party. Don't get excited: The Democratic party can be an attractor of those whose vice is envy, laziness, lust, or a desire for power. Those are "deadly sins" too, just like greed. And nor are Democrats immune from greed either: If I were a greedy union leader or government employee, that greed would lead me to vote Democrat.)
Conclusion
Is legalizing gambling a conservative policy? Is legalizing prostitution a conservative policy? What about legalizing drug use?
Think about gambling. Gambling is a "business", in the sense of being an economic establishment which makes money, provides jobs, and offers an activity in which some will engage. With some games of chance, like blackjack or a neighborhood game of poker, skill and hard work can increase your odds of being a "winner". And gambling has made some people very wealthy.
Yet the net economic effect of gambling is negative. People who gamble don't create any value with that time and effort; their wealth is simply redistributed. A few will get very wealthy, but most -- usually the ones who can least afford it -- will lose, leaving others to provide the support they should have given to their own families. And some feel, morally, that gambling violates biblical principles.
Conservatives tend to want to make activities illegal if they are felt sufficiently harmful and/or have a net economic negative impact. Libertarians, on the other hand, say such things should be legal regardless of whether harmful or not.
I contend "the plan" is harmful economically. I also conclude it's unethical, as judged by the biblical principle "do unto others". The evidence is spelled out elsewhere in detail, and just summarized here. If you think you can refute it, be my guest.
Otherwise, the inescable conclusion is then that there is nothing "conservative" about supporting "the plan" method of selling Quixtar -- of signing up new IBOs and telling them to do likewise. If you're comfortable banning gambling, or ponzi schemes or chain letters, you certainly shouldn't be pushing "the plan" or supporting a company which makes most of it's money from "the plan".
On the other hand, if you are a person who thinks harmful activities like gambling or chain letters should be legal, then I can respect that, and see how "the plan" should be legal too. But that doesn't make it ethical or advisable.
So what do we say about something which looks one way ("conservative") on the outside, but, examined closely, is something altogether different? A wolf is sheep's clothing, someone might say.
In some cases, that's probably fair. Once you realize how this works and move ahead, and don't tell people the truth, that will apply to you. Other low-level IBOs are undoubtedly just well-meaning people who are being misled, and don't understand they are harming other people and/or themselves.
Which are you? That's for you to sort out and choose with your actions.
I wish you the best regardless.
An excellent in depth explanation Tim :-)
I'm looking Quixtar in another light. A good relegious of political leader will never rip off it's own follower. If they do, they are not a good leader. While Quixtar rip off their own ppl! IBOs who are taught and somewhat converted into good christians and republicans, who are asked to raise funds for republican party, are the ones who will end up losing money, according to Quixtar own numbers (platinum index).
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4714
What type of leadership is that?
Ok Tim here is some thing for you:
Quixtar = Communism, from what about Quixtar, by a poster QBlog
http://tinyurl.com/52frx
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Communism is probably the best example I can think of. It looks good on paper but it never really works when you start scaling upwards and forcing it to function long-term. The longer and bigger and more diverse (heterogeneous) it becomes, the more unstable it becomes and ultimately crumbles (swiftly or slowly depending on many parameters).
Who or what do we blame for the inevitable failure of communism? Who is culpable? Can we break it down into various parts and find out then? Is it the people who initiated the revolution? Is it the leadership who abused the system? Is it the psychology of the system itself that often nurtures sub-par performance? Is it the military which is almost always critical to its survival? I say it's the whole ideology, the entire system working together as one communist country that is to blame.
I understand the need to be practical and look at this business from a business perspective. That's the flaw. That's where Jim fails repeatedly (no offense Jim) and that's where most of the world has gotten it all wrong. This isn't a business. This isn't a company. This is an ideology, a mindset, a culture, a philosophy and a way of life. Why do you think the "cult" charges are so prevalent? Those are only a symptom of the larger issue. It's "communism" wrapped in the blanket of free enterprise. It's a fundamentally flawed way of living painted with Christian symbology. It's the wrong dressed up to look like the right.
As I said, this is probably the wrong place for this. I predict that I will be misunderstood and that's fine. Think of this as hopefully some food for thought. I won't bring it up again.
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That whole thread is a gem.
I respect the opinions people have against Quixtar, whether or not they were personally burned by the business/organization/mindset (or whatever you believe applies), knew someone who was, or just don't agree with it. I'm not going to sit here and call anyone who bad mouths it a cry baby or a dropout. That is their opinion and they are entitled to it. However, I do hope that in turn, my opinion is equally respected.
Yes, I am an IBO,I buy the tools, and attend the seminars. I have questioned whether or not purchasing tools is a good investment, and have decided that they have motivated me in the business, and in my personal life, if nothing else. I think they should be available to buy outside the business, and agree that it would make pricing more competitive (however the new premier membership drops the price down significantly.)
I read all the blogs and articles I come across, and try to come to a logical and educated conclusion. There are going to be immoral and corrupt people who take advantage of their resources to manipulate and benefit from the loss of others in any business. I have not personally witnessed this happening in my branch of the business, and it is unfortunate that it has brought so much anger to so many people.
I agree that there is a strong emphasis on showing the plan, but I do not look at it as a shift in emphasis on moving product. Since I am still getting a feel for the company, I have not been as driven to bring others in, because I do not want to "drag" a friend into something I do not personally find profitable. The movement of product is an easy and ethical source of income, and that is where my focus has been. However, now seeing that this business CAN be successful, if even by just selling the products, I am moving towards showing the plan and getting others involved, NOT so they can blindly herd as many people into the business as possible, but so they, too, can begin my moving product and setting a stable standard of income. From a selling standpoint, it makes sense to show the plan, as long as those you get in know that emphasis on the product is not only acceptable, but recommended. Because I accumulate points based on what my "downline" sells, it will be as if I have someone working with me in sales. I do not intend on getting six people who will miraculously make me rich in a year. I do plan on carefully working with people I believe can motivate themselves and others to move product and grow the business, and if that takes me years to develop, I believe it will be worth the time spent. Another idea in showing the plan is the fact that most people, even if they do not decide to join the business, will purchase products. So really it is the same as making your focus selling the products, with the added benefit that the person might also grow your business.
Many people in this business are probably so blinded by the romanticism of the dream, they forget about the harsh realities of realizing it. Never have I been told this business would be easy, never have I been pressured to buy the tapes, and never have my questions been answered with slick "tapetalk." My upline sponsor knows I do research on the internet, she knows I come across negative criticism, and we discuss any issues in real-world terms (ie not phrases like, "You're letting the details get in the way of your dreams," but rather, "I haven't heard that statistic, but why don't we consult our upline diamond and do some research to make sure we're all aware of what's going on.")
As far as the idea of conservatives and the prevalence of Christianity, it is something I have observed but never felt made an impact on the atmosphere or workings of my branch of the business. In my area our business community is very diverse, culturally, religiously, politically, and in any other way. I can see how in any big business you will find conservative thinking (it's a general trend here, people) but I've never really heard anyone in the business forcing their views, or even really putting them out there. Our group as a whole discusses all the time how we appreciate our diversity. We consider it an advantage, because we want anyone to feel welcome. Perhaps this is my overly-enthusiastic new IBO bias blinding me, however I like to think I look at this business as objectively as possible, and will continue to do so, and as of yet it's not been an issue. There are many Christians in the group, but there are also many Muslims, Jews, atheists, and generally confused people. I am not Christian, and I have not had any problems with this.
Greed and riches. This is a theme I am personally disgusted in, and choose to separate myself from when I can. Primarily the idea of a lavish lifestyle is promoted to motivate people in the business, because as a whole human nature makes us easily respond to that. As much as I do not believe material wealth should be basis of motivation in human life, it is not my place to judge the dreams of others. I am happy to say that, despite this major emphasis within the business, there is an equally major emphasis on time, and having time to spend with your family, or volunteering. Wanting money in vast quantities does not mean wanting it for cars, houses, or luxuries. It is not wrong to want to be rich. My personal goals are to make enough money to have more time, and flexibility in life. Time to go back to school, time to start up other businesses. Time to volunteer. Money to invest and support my family and others. Whether Quixtar can give me that or not is something I will have to realize in time, as with any business venture. If it doesn't work, I'll move on.
I work three jobs. I don't by any means love them, but the business doesn't inspire me to hate them. It's given me more motivation to respect them, actually. As stepping stones to a bigger goal, as experience in developing myself. I'm not looking for an easy answer to do nothing for the rest of my life. I'm looking for a rewarding challenge to satisfy my dreams. If this isn't the answer, at least it will give me enough experience to get closer to it.
My goal is not to motivate anyone in believing in this business if they already know where they stand. I'm not trying to blindly defend it. I'm simply trying to voice my observations, and carefully developed opinions, and create some balance between the two extremes I see on both sides. I'm amazed at how both sides can blindly throw numbers, statistics, insults, links, stories, and opinions back at each other. I try to find something sound and constructive, but really all I ever see is a volley of conflicting view points.
If nothing else, I wish more people (from BOTH sides) would concentrate half as much of their time quietly and objectively researching their opinions. Everyone seems so determined to "save" the other side. I'm just determined to understand it.
Thank you for listening.
Whoa, long post :)
First there is one thing with MLM: Very few ppl will be able and willing to do it full time. Why? again: Bwecause very few ppl will be able to do it full time. :) Means you need a network of people in your team as committed as you are to keep you full time. To make $3000 bonus, you had to sell products more than $10,000 every month, which is not possible without a network is it?
Now the thing with the "tools" is....they don't have much value in real "tool" market. And in Quixtar structure, top folks, emeralds and beyond only can make good profit of it. Doesn't look a good opportunity to follow.
There is something fishy thing about it: product based bonus from Quixtar is very well documented and is a solid business contract. But there is no tool contract! It's all verbal, based on whim of kingpin. If there is a contract, I am waiting to be corrected.
The real tools in network marketing are out there, cheaper, better, containing substance. Please shop around. E.g. Communikate, costco has better tool at half price. Tony Robins rocks. Amazon and library got many good books. And on and on.
Product: It's quite simple. Have some samples. Tell ppl you want free samples? I sell products? Even negative folks will come running. Make some clients! Some may see the potential and become IBOs. No plan, invitation, QI etc.
Watch your bottom line, and remember, it's a part time business. Keep selling products and it will supplement your income.
Imran,
:) Thanks for the advice!
I realized much of my reservation in signing someone up was making sure they were as dedicated as I am. It's not easy to find people motivated enough to get into this business and make it work. I'm choosing my prospects carefully, and many of the qualities I look for are strengths that I lack, so I can learn from them.
I started doing a bit of the math in my head and realized it would take significant product movement to make it work. The sampling is exactly what I was planning on. I was sold on many of the samples, and people need to feel security in their purchases. I'm always amazed that people will spend more money on name brands just because they've tried them and know they like them, so why wouldn't it work in this business?
As for the tools, I enjoy listening to the rallies, but not for the price. I wish there could be more sharing of tapes within the business. If the end goal is to educate and motivate, it makes sense to share around. I lent out text books in college all the time, and I wasn't even earning better grades based upon my friends' improvement! I'm considering going off standing order but ordering tapes within the company that are strictly educational, so in the end I will be purchasing the same amount of tapes, but I will be choosing them, not the company. I am not sure what reaction that would get though.
Already looking into outside sources. Do you have any good recomendations for specific books or CD's? If I can find it at the library, great, if not then I know some fair-priced bookstores.
Again, I appreciate that you're open to people wanting to give the business a chance. I'm keeping my options (and eyes) open, but I signed into this with every intention of making it work, and I'm not one to go back on my ambitions while they still hold fair credit.
If you have any other advice I am always open!
Well there is a lot of material available for MLMs, If you do follow http://mlmblog.typepad.com . Weed out the anti-q there and take what you like :)
And yes, pick the tools yourself!!! I'm so glad you understand it. In Quixtar, ratio is 5-1, motivation vs instructional. You can order tool from website now instead of depending on your upline. Motivation is quite important. You may download mp3s @ itunes.com at 50 cents or so and use iPod or mp3 players.
Your upline should be happy if you say you want to borrow tools. After all they are getting PV. Sit with them and sample the tools. There are some good instructional tapes. One is from Bo short called "It's called practice". Pretty good one!
There are some invite only discussion forum for MLMers, makingtherun.com, and one attached to mlmblog.typepad.com
I'm not an expert in MLM, but I do know that if done properly, some ppl make good income. There is a guy perfecto in quixtarblog.com/forum and he explained me the biggest challange....how to prospect.
Try jumping on that forum, quixtarblog.com/forum. you may get help from some retailers who did make half million dollar from amway by just retailing! Yup, there is a poster there from that time.
Thanks for the suggestions! I've already started hunting for more truth. It's so frustrating to be so driven, see so much opportunity, and put your dream on hold to sort it all out. The more I research the dimmer the posibilities look for widescale revenue with Quixtar, even with emphasis on selling, however it is opening up so many opportunites for me. My newest "prospect," who ironically practically jumped me for an opportunity to learn more about the business, is just starting up a successful business in the insurance arena. He has plenty of experience in contacting people and marketing ideas, so I'm hoping he and I can learn quite a bit from each other, even (or perhaps especially) outside the business. It is sad that so many people depend on recruiting sheep, and never seek to learn anything new from them. There is so much to learn from a downline!
I am against the idea of "doing what you're told," a critisicm of the business repeatedly mentioned on one of the sites you suggested. I've always found myself using unique techniques to be successful. I think it's important to use the knowledge and experiences of others to act as a foundation for your personal growth, but it's not growing if you don't add your personal touch to it! It is encouraging to read about new legs starting to come around and support individualism, and Passport is something I'm going to investigate further. Sometimes I wish I could just work the business instead of getting all caught up in the politics surrounding working the business.
If you don't mind sometime, I'd be interested to hear about your experience with Quixtar, and if you have any suggestions/advice for an overly-motivated, wannabe entrepeneur. It's such an exciting time, because I'm still determined to make the business work, but I'm keeping my options open. Whatever I do, I can't bring myself to settle for the traditional if it doesn't offer any challenge or growth.
My goal from the beginning has been to accumulate enough revenue from Quixtar to fund other investments and/or businesses. I don't like the idea of relying on one (unstable) source of income.
It will be interesting to see my upline's reaction if I suggest choosing my own tools. If everyone is as concerned about the tools doing their job of promoting growth and motivating, I don't see why it should be such a big deal. I have been assured that the tapes are not a source of income for our leaders. Until I get solid answers I'll just have to give both sides fair consideration. I hate being torn. But then again, I hate living blindly even more.
I think I will order that Bo Short tape if it's available, because I'm pretty sure I've heard it cited before. Between the right (carefully selected) tools, some strict financial planning, and strategic sample networking, hopefully I can build a firm client base, develop an equally dedicated team, and make this business work, as ethically and transparently as possible. Perhaps the naive workings of a dreamer, but I guess being a dreamer is what got me into this business in the first place.
Well, here I go again posting a novel. It is really reassuring to see immediate responses on these blogs. All input and feedback is always welcome. All I ever seek is the truth, and the conviction that I am living my life to its fullest potential.
Imran, you're an amazing source of information to tap into! As always, your feedback and support is appreciated. It's so easy to feel lost in that sea of information out there. It's always encouraging to find it arbitrated.
If you don't mind, feel free to e-mail me your story, and anything else you feel is worth discussing. (And anyone else out there who feels compelled to share their thoughts/fears/opinions etc)
(locke_demosthenes_balance@yahoo.com)
Dude, you are so unfit of being an IBO :D You've got originallity, you don't thing down line as "Down" line and you are able to think for yourself. And yes, as Quixtar ppl say don't put all your eggs in one basket, I like you idea to use MLM as a starting point.
Ok here is what happen. There are so many young folks like you who are enthusistic and want to own a business. Opportunities are out there. But most opportunities should be found. Quixtar like things jumps on you. It doesn't mean other opportunities are not there.
Here is a problem, if you want to go big in Quixtar, that means you'll have to tap in to tool money. Product based income can only equate to say a corp executive income. Not exciting eh! But you won't have an contractual security for it. If you stay as intelligent as you are now, can you see your upline sharing tool money with you?
My experience: Bad one. I was brainwashed and did exactly what system told me. Worked real hard. I did learn some personal skills, but in term of business, lost $10,000 in a year and then I quit. After quitting I searched some on Internet and said only if I had done it before....
Based on my experience and what I have known now, I can't recommend Quixtar to you. Retailing yes, but retailing can only make extra couple hundred.
So here is a person should do:
1) Write down what do you want, where you wanna go? Solid number i.e. in 5 years you want $100 bank ballance.
2) Find what do YOU like to do? Sales? Marketing? any other business skill you may have? or you'd like to have?
3) Read this blog: http://www.business-opportunities.biz/
4) Make up a plan, and budget it. For a long term plan, find 401K or RSP, so even if your short term plan fails, your long term is secure.
5) Get busy!
And remember, keep learning. Failing is good, use that experience in other business. Thats how many ppl who are rich become rich.
Hmm...so I got really confident in my new (and what I felt to be much healthier) approach to the business as using it for a conduit to move sales, and look for others who are willing to "settle" for the same, and just as I thought I could totally rock it that way, I got to a meeting which seemed even more cultish than the others, where that very idea is scoffed at and shunned. "If you're concentrating on moving products...if that is your goal in this business, then I don't want you here. You're the caboose. I want the engines. The people who get others fired up in this business," or something to that extent.
Now, excuse me one moment, but aren't those useless cabooses not building your PV and creating all that revenue that you boasts comes back to you? Just by preaching to sponsor people and teach then to buy from themselves, you believe me to get fired up about changing those people's lives? So they can put themselves into a more financially straining position they weren't expecting and THEN finally realize why it is you sponsor people (because you're screwed financiall if you don't), so they can buy from themselves and get into debt and teach others to buy from themselves and get into debt...why haven't more people in the business done the math on this?!? Are you really changing someone's life if they can only profit from putting others in the position where they can only profit from putting others in the position...
I see how the money is made. I see where it comes from. Even if I don't sell, I see how it is made. That is my problem. I see it, so I can't do it blindly and in mass quantity and feel happy about it.
Are the people in the business sheep in wolve's clothing, or wolves in sheep's clothing? Either way, something of who you truly are is being hidden.
Tonight was a great speaker, he explained the plan very well (didn't ramble on for hours about the dream...if I really do have that much drive and dream in me, I don't need someone to remind me of that for three hours straight...) and he explained the core idea of the business and how it can work for you. It made me feel a little better about just getting out and doing it, giving it a fighting chance to say that I did it, and if I leave knowing I left giving it a fair chance at legitimacy.
I love our group. I love my upline. I just wish we could all discuss the information I find without the fear of being shunned or negative. Doesn't flow of information benefit your business more? They keep brushing off all the information that is out there, saying that it's garbage. If it's such garbage why don't they just address it and prove it! Luckily the people I'm associating with push the idea of the plan, but are still relying on good old selling.
Anyone out there have experience in making this work, despite any criticism you may have? Any tricks to getting people to see or understand the plan having educated them yourself about what it really is, without them getting discouraged by everyone around them throwing out slick selling phrases?
What do I want? I have never been able to settle for average, but I'm still trying to figure out who I am, let alone what I want. I want the feeling of knowing I am doing nothing less than what I am fully capable of. Something that challenges and rewards me day to day, that drives me out of bed. I do think I need my own business, I just don't know where to start. I guess, like everyone says, it will be trail and error and just finding it. I like everything, too. I like the idea of selling something you believe in, or maketing it, I love seeing people grow and become leaders.
Eventually I want enough money to live comfortably, travel the world, and volunteer. Part of me says that if even a little corruption in this business can get me that, maybe it's worth it, but the rest of me knows I'd have too much of a conscience to do it.
Budgeting: love it. It's solid, it planning, it puts things in perspective, and helps you set realistic goals.
Get moving: I want to, but it's like buying a car. You just want to go for it so bad, you worry that you'll do it out of shere impacience, instead of smart purchasing.
I just want the truth, and I want it for everyone else. Maybe they don't want it for themselves, though. I just want to be able to think for myself, act for myself, innovate for myself. Maybe others want that for themselves either, but can't think for themselves enough to actually do it.
Don't let "the dream" get in the way of the dream.
My final verdict: I think too much. And write too much. My final question: is that actually a bad thing?
http://www.business-opportunities.biz/
good site, thank you!
Can anyone help a scattered person put themself back together?!?
Told ya, you are too smart to be an IBO :D
Grand daughter of Mr. Walter Bass, Deb, posts on quixtarblog.com/forum. He made half million / year by good old retailing, the ethical way. May be you should jump on that forum and ask her? Ask from the experienced ppl, good idea.
Buy for yourself and teach others to do so is, according to FTC, illegal. You HAVE to sell at least 70% of the products to END customers, not your downline.
In the middle,
Thinking for yourself is what separates you from virtually everyone else involved. It is a rare, but extremely valuable attribute to have. Don't ever, ever let anyone (especially your upline) tell you anything different.
Imran is right. You are way too smart for IBO material. If you want to start your own business, I have every confidence that you will succeed.
I fully understand the frustration of wanting results now. But it won't happen with Quixtar. You've already seen and felt that something is not right with it. Don't make the mistake that will have you asking youself years from now "What was I thinking?".
Good luck.
Jason
I appreciate your comment! Fortunately, my upline is one of the best things about the business. My sponsor gets to deal with me babbling about my doubts frequently, and I've always felt I was being listened to and respected.
Yes, the dream is there. I want so badly to have something more significant in my life, and it felt so right until I started reading up about it. It's almost worth it to me to put my all into it, and then if it fails, I can fail with confidence knowing that it really was the business, and not just me.
Or maybe I just need to stop caring so much, stop thinking so much, and just start living. It's a shame to think life away.
Well, either way, whatever I do I'll still try to keep an open mind to all possibilities and opinions. I will forever be "In the Middle," but maybe someday being there will carry a satisfaction.
In the middle,
I have much more respect for someone who can say what you've just said and mean it than those who say it to merely comfort themselves as a means of defense.
Keep your open mind, and always question. You have a right to the answers. I wish you luck.
In the middle,
Why not you talk to ppl on all sides? Talk to top MLMers of all industry. And you know, they all love to talk :D
I am not an expert on MLM, just did for Quixtar for a year. My research said for an MLM, Quixtar is not a good deal for an IBO, but a very good deal to be a partner store of them. Just pure business opinion.
See what other MLM are saying. Watch Dateline show. There are many MLMs who show that show and say "We'll be never like this"
And compare if your upline does the same thing. If he doesn't, go for it. IF he does, you can ask him why he is doing that? He is just your business partners, you can ask him?
Or maybe I just need to stop caring so much, stop thinking so much, and just start living. It's a shame to think life away.
Well don't worry too much, as long as you are thinking with an open mind, you'll be fine ;) problem starts when you stop doing so.
I've been leaning towards more communication with people in and out of the business, and in other similar businesses. It's really been helping a lot. One definite benefit about being an IBO is that it's pushed me to be proactive about researching and educating myself in the business world.
Yes, I've always been impressed with how successful a product can be through Quixtar. Though I think most the popularity of XS comes from addicted IBO's who buy it for themselves. ;)
I'm planning on meeting with my upline to go over a very carefully planned set of questions and doubts. Even if they aren't answered, maybe I'll feel more understood.
Keeping an open mind leads you to more possibilities, and questioning keeps those posibilities realistic. But it requires some level of faith and certaintity to turn those posibilities into reality. Maybe instead of focusing on so many of the problems in a situation, more concentration should be put on finding solutions.
I've been called a hopeless dreamer and a hopeless cynic. Maybe I'm just in the middle of the two. ;)
Thanks for the ongoing encouragement!
It's very unlikely that my common sense post will be read, but I'm going to comment anyway. I've been a Quixtar IBO for 2 years now, made some great friends and made some decent money. I can tell you that being in this business has caused me to do a few things that I wouldn't have otherwise. 1) strike up a conversation and try to make a new friend with a complete stranger 2) call old friends that I would have never gotten in touch with otherwise. 3) read(that in itself is great) some great self improvement books that I definately wouldn't have other wise which have spilled over to my non-business life.
I never pressure people, I tell them what it takes to be successful and then I step away and let them decide. For the nay-sayers out there who think this business won't work, I was at a conference a few months ago and was told that to make it work you have to show the business plan 5 times a week to make it happen. The speaker said ok, everyone break out your calenders, everyone who has done that, stand up. Now out of about 5,000 people only 25 people stood up......need I say more. Thats why the great number of people that get frustrated, they aren't willing to do the work. It's like a great diet plan that gets a bad name because people won't stick to the program.
Hey, wanted to say thank you again to everyone who replied to my posts. I gave up the net for a while to give the "quixtar opportunity" a fighting, unbiased chance, and as much as I've seen others be successful in it, it's just not for me, not right now.
I'm applying to the Peace Corps. Nothing has ever felt more right. I just let my upline know yesterday that I won't be able to afford the business if I want to be out of debt by the time I leave the country. So far everyone is very understanding.
I'll agree with Eric, that being an IBO definitely pushed me out of a social slump, and helped with many positive attributes.
I'm also now more aware (and scared) of how easy it is to get pulled into a group and their beliefs, and how easy it is start justifying the craziest logic with even crazier logic.
Until I leave, I think I'll prowl the nets for a good quixtar debate to get stuck in the middle of.
:)
The speaker said ok, everyone break out your calenders, everyone who has done that, stand up. Now out of about 5,000 people only 25 people stood up
Yeah, why is that? The whole answer lies right here!
Ppl are hard workng and doing 2 jobs in many cases. Why they can't work in Quixtar where they can drive for thousands of mile to attend that function?
Answer: That work is not alone. They need prospects! Majority of American detests Amway and now Quixtar and say no. Some ppl tap into fertile markets like students and immigrants, ppl who have not heard about amway before.
Here are stats:
1) No Quixtar only Diamond. (all current Diamonds are from Amway days)
2) (LawDawg's calculations) Let's Take A Look At Quixtar's Own Numbers
According to Quixtar, there are 340,000 current IBOs. 66% of these are "active." That makes 224,400 "active" IBOs.
According to the numbers that Amway/Quixtar are required to provide by the FTC (which found Amway guilty of making false income claims in 1979), the following are the percentages of those "active" distributors that have reached the level of "diamond" and above:
Diamonds 0.0076%
Founders Diamonds 0.0018%
EDC & up 0.0042%
Thus, by multiplying these Quixtar numbers by the official number of "active" IBOs we can determine the total number that have accumulated at each of these highly successful pin levels over the last fifty years (rounding up):
Diamonds 17
Founders Diamonds 4
EDC & up 10
Thus, according to the company's own numbers, despite fifty years of IBOs working to build a residual income, the total number that have accomplished the feat appears to be . . . . 31!
How many have tried? Well, since 1970, according the FTC, the number of distributors has stayed at about 300K-360K and 50% of the whole distributor force quits every year. That's 150,000 former distributors every year since 1970.
Multiply that by 35 years and you get 5,250,000 former IBOs (just going back to 1970). Yet there's only 31 that are at "diamond" level and above today.
Oh, those silly number and statistics don't mean anything to me...I'm special, I'm created for success, I'm DESTINED to be diamond. The dream is only as big as the obstacles that get in its way, it just takes hard work, belief, persistance, and lack of personal thought or opinion. I'm on my way!
I have learned a l lot from all of the tapes, books and functions. I was an IBO about 10yrs ago, and now with Quixtar and its plan and after furthering my college education, I see that a lot is possible. First thing that i snecessary is to get an apprentice leg going and while you are wotking in depth on that line let people listen to the tapes and go to functions. This will give them a new way of thinking. Those that want to jump after understanding over a couple weeks of tapes/cds then you can work with them to build an apprentice leg until they are comfotable with registering new ppl. It really is that simple...yes it takes time, but if you help people to understand the simplicity of just buying your own products, then showing that to others and add a few products each month, there is a good income to be made.
Very good points, JD. But you left something very important out. Probably the most important thing. What about retailing? The FTC states that you need to be adhering to 70% sales to customers to make your little venture legal, yet you don't even mention it. Did you forget, or do you just disregard this? Either way, without it your little 'business opportunity' becomes an illegal pyramid.
Hey Tim,
TERRIFIC ANALYSIS OF QUIXTAR! Love ALL your posts!
Here's another blog by an avowed Hard-core Conservative Southern Baptist, who is a Quixtar Critic. He is on some kind of vigilante ;-) trip!
Hey Tim,
TERRIFIC ANALYSIS OF QUIXTAR! Love ALL your posts!
Here's another blog by an avowed Hard-core Conservative Southern Baptist, who is a Quixtar Critic. He is on some kind of vigilante ;-) trip!
http://www.quixtaramwayinfiltrator.blogspot.com
Why is that if you just tell ppl to buy for themselves is it illegal? You are Redirecting where they shop, and teaching others to do so. This makes perfect sense from an manufacturers point. You dont pay advertising.
So why would that be illegal?
THIS COMPANY IS FULL OF **** AND HARASSES copys of emails sent by these *** they are rude and they have a issue with people selling their **** on ebay ect so yea....
Thank you for your reply and further explanation that these items were
listed for auction without your permission. Rule 4.3 states that no IBO
shall permit the Corporation's products or services to be sold or displayed
in retail stores which means that IBOs must be cautious not to allow their
products to be sold in retail environments such as Ebay. Please confirm to
us that you will not be providing access to our products to individuals who
seek to resell them. Once we receive your assurance, we will be able to
close this matter.
Sincerely,
Norma
Rules Administration
Business Conduct & Rules
C: Pfaff
Adams
cmc429@aol.com
02/13/2006 04:50 To
PM Rules_Administration@quixtar.com
cc
Subject
Re: Selling Quixtar Products on
Ebay
1st i am not only person who uses my ebay 2nd i didnt list that item one
of my otehr family members 3rd.... i was unaware that anything was listed
because i have not myself been on my ebay my brother, and mom dad and
extended family memebersa all use it
-----Original Message-----
From: Rules_Administration@quixtar.com
To: CMC429@AOL.COM
Cc: JPFAFFV@COMCAST.NET; WADAMS@DIQUEST.NET
Sent: Mon, 13 Feb 2006 13:59:50 -0500
Subject: Selling Quixtar Products on Ebay
Hello,
We recently learned of your Ebay listings (5664998151, 5664772517) which
promote the sale of our Ocean Essentials Balanced Health Omega product.
While we appreciate your interest in marketing our products, we must point
out to you that only our Independent Business Owners are authorized to
retail our products. Quixtar Members and Clients do not have that
authorization. Our records show that you are registered as Client
#101540106.
As members of Ebay's VERO program, we have requested your auctions
(5664772517, 5664998151) be removed for copyright infringement; for more
information, please review our About Me page (Quixtarrule! sadmin) on Ebay.
If you have not already done so, you may wish to contact your upline or
Quixtar's Customer Service department to inquire about a possible return
and reimbursement for this product.
While it does not appear that you are planning to sell our products on a
regular basis, we must still request your written assurance that you will
refrain from retailing Quixtar products outside of the Independent Business
Owners contract in the future.
Sincerely,
Ron Mitchell, Supervisor
Rules Administration
Quixtar, Inc.
Email: Client 101540106 Christina Cimino
Copy: 4001391 John Pfaff
&nb! sp; 2311827 Walter P & Sharon W Adams
There will always be critics for everything. The people who make excuses for why they don't try or excuses for why they can't succeed. There is only one method we need to consider. You make a goal, whatever that goal may be, and set it in stone. You make your plans to achieve that goal and try out various plans and see which works the best. It is at the level of a plan that you make your changes or adjustments and try new plans out. But along the way you will always encounter the pessimists, or the critics, who don't give you ideas on how to adjust your plans in order to achieve your goals. Instead they just tell you that your goal can never be achieved, so don't even bother trying! Are those the people you want to listen to? No, I don't wish to listen to them either... I would rather listen to the people who give me ideas and promote my solutions. If those people are from Quixtar, then so be it! One must always remember one thing, "If you are talking about your effort, then your results must be poor!" You notice these people above don't speak of their results? However, they do have plenty to say about their reasons for lack of effort!
There will always be critics for everything. The people who make excuses for why they don't try or excuses for why they can't succeed...
Hey! I'm ALL FOR success! That's why I encourage people to try to succeed at just about anything that pays better than Quixtar's pathetic average of $115 per month!
Instead they just tell you that your goal can never be achieved, so don't even bother trying! Are those the people you want to listen to? No, I don't wish to listen to them either...
Clearly you believe this "learning by not listening" thing is a good idea, and seem to be demonstrating it right now. I've never said peoples' goals cannot be achieved -- I'm just pointing out they should have better goals than the pathetic $115 per month Quixtar pays -- before expenses -- the average IBO.
But since you admit you're not into listening to anyone who doesn't already agree with your every belief, I fear this point will never make it through your ultra-Quixtar-re-enforced noggin!
So sad.
I would rather listen to the people who give me ideas and promote my solutions.
Great! Then here's an idea: Do any legitimate work which will pay you more than Quixtar's pathetic $115 per month.
And as far as promoting "your solutions", wow, that's a tip off. You're basicly saying you only want to listen to people who will tell you that your "solutions" are right. Why should these hypothetical people promote your solutions?
Oh yeah, because it just happens to also be their "solution" as well...
If those people are from Quixtar, then so be it!
Well, my goodness! Quixtar being a likely candidate for your every need for success! Who would have imagined it?
You know, thanks for the refreshing alternative. We almost never get commenters here who spout vague gobbledegook about "support" and "success", call everyone else "critics" and "pessimists", and then -- amazingly -- end up putting in a positive word for Quixtar.
Quixtar: The best advertisments against it are the postings from their own IBOs. Honestly, is that how you want to end up? Defensively spouting that kind of nonsense on some random blog?
Stay. Away. :-)
For all the IBOs reading this blog. Just be neutral and look at your bottom line. After you subtract your expenses for seminars, cds, tape, etc., are you making enough of a profit to justify your time, effort and trouble?
If not, it might be a wise BUSINESS DECISION to consider alternatives.
I would say the "REAL" average income is less than $115 a month. Most IBOs are at 100 or 300 PV which would give them a monthly income of $8 to $36. It's the quixtar zillionaires that drive up the average income.
The comment rules will apply. Please post only once.
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An excellent in depth explanation Tim :-)
I'm looking Quixtar in another light. A good relegious of political leader will never rip off it's own follower. If they do, they are not a good leader. While Quixtar rip off their own ppl! IBOs who are taught and somewhat converted into good christians and republicans, who are asked to raise funds for republican party, are the ones who will end up losing money, according to Quixtar own numbers (platinum index).
http://bellaciao.org/en/article.php3?id_article=4714
What type of leadership is that?
Posted by: Imran Aziz on December 27, 2004 11:54 PM