My goodness! Today, few believe that Jesus was born on the 25th of December. This date was set as the birth of Jesus centuries after his death. Centuries before Jesus ever existed, pagans celebrated on this day. I do not see how you can claim the pagans stole from the Christians, when it is so widely recognised that Catholic clerics inclkuded a pagan holiday in the Christian holiday, and simply decided that Jesus was born on Dec. 25th. No, just like All Hallows Eve and Easter, Christmas is very much pagan. Why do you think all these symbols exist, like Santa Slaus in his sleigh, the hearth, the holly, the Christmas tree, tales about Santa Claus living in the North Pole?

I heartily agree with Eric.

And what about the lambs?

There is in fact a massive amount of folklore and myth (call it preScientific science) worldwide dealing with solstices and equinoxes in an allegorical manner, because human survival depended on knowledge of the seasons and what each brings; the most efficient way to transmit this knowledge to children is in the form of stories when their minds are little sponges; later they may learn the real meaning.

Anyone with an interest in this topic should read The Secret of the Incas (be sure to get the one by Sullivan; there is a similar title out there), and then Hamlet's Mill (by de Santillana and von DeChend), in addition to Joseph Campbell's writings and Fraser's Golden Bough. A person who has read none of these, but has read only a couple of self-serving Church sources, is hardly qualified to discuss the pagan origins of Christmas.

So now we even have the intellectuals trying to prove that Christmas isn't a heathen holiday! Well...no matter what you say my friends, it is. As is Easter, and all of the other phoney holidays NOT found in the Bible.
Let me give you a clue...the God of the OLD Testament is Christ (read John, the first chapter, and know that the WORD is the Creator)!!! And Christ said, "If you love me, obey my commandments."...and that includes HIS (and they ain't just Jewish) HOLY DAYS. Think about all of those Holy Days, which his apostles kept, long after He has ascended to His Father...and KNOW the truth...and that is, that if you are His, and a Christian, you should be keeping His Holy Days, and NOT, man's HOLIDAYS.
Thanks...he that has an ear, let him hear and understand....
Steven Chappelle
Duluth, GA.

Erik,

Why do you think all these symbols exist, like Santa Slaus in his sleigh, the hearth, the holly, the Christmas tree, tales about Santa Claus living in the North Pole?

This article is about the origins of Christmas, not how people observe it today. That's like arguing fresh onions must be high in fat because the batter-dipped version, e.g. the "Bloomin' Onion" served at Outback Steakhouse, has 3,000 calories.

"humble" seeker,

A person who has read none of these... is hardly qualified to discuss the pagan origins of Christmas.

Dude: if you know so well who is "qualified" to broach a topic, why not actually address the argument being offered above. Such posing is usually a mask for someone who's got nothing better to offer.

And what about the lambs?

There was this book once, see, called "the Torah", and it instructed these people who read it, called "Jews" to use lambs at feasts as atonement for sins. Then there were these certain Jews, see, who believed in this guy "Jesus", see, who read and taught from that book, who told his followers that the "lamb" was an analogy for his death, see... you ever hear about any of that?

Oh wait. That theory doesn't make ANY sense at all. Because your "experts" neglected to tell you about the obvious explanations and presented only improbable, esoteric ones to you. Yes, the lambs have a bona-fide, historical Jewish origin.

And yes, I've also read Campbell's tripe: his arguments are a bit like saying since all people have heads and feet there must be no other meaningful distinctions among them. Most his overt points are trite and obvious, most his implied points are obviously wrong.

Steven,

So now we even have the intellectuals trying to prove that Christmas isn't a heathen holiday!

Huh? Dude, there's this little thing called evidence. If an "intellectual" pointed out a huge cat-paw in your yard, would you blame him for trying to "prove" a cougar had been there? Or would you instead investigate further and/or warn your neighbors to keep their dogs in at night?

And since you're into God's word, you should really study it a bit regarding what it tells you about keeping "Holy Days":

But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again? You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you. (Gal 4:9-11)

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. These are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ...

Such regulations indeed have an appearance of wisdom, with their self-imposed worship, their false humility and their harsh treatment of the body, but they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence. (Col 2:16-17,23)

"Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day". ...and that's EXACTLY what you're doing, Dude. The opposite of what this passage intended. ;-)
And read Zechariah 14 if you don't think that you should be doing the Holy Days...because you WILL be doing them in the future...like it or not.
We'll have to agree to disagree.
Thanks....
Steve C.

Steve, I'm not judging your observation of some holy day. You can observe whatever you like (or not!) as you see fit and profitable -- I have no issue with that

(And it's interesting that you seem to think I am judging you, when pretty much all I've done has been to quote the bible. You seem to have been offended by Paul's words, not mine.)

Rather, I'm noticing that your statements, like this one:

... if you are His, and a Christian, you should be keeping His Holy Days, and NOT, man's HOLIDAYS.

Seem to be in clear conflict with Paul's directives on the matter:

Who are you to judge someone else's servant? One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. He who regards one day as special, does so to the Lord... So whatever you believe about these things keep between yourself and God. (Rom 14:4-6,22)

So, as I read it, we're not supposed to run around condemning others as not-obedient if they don't follow our preferred holiday schedule. Tell me if you think I'm somehow misunderstanding this verse.

You seem to be confusing my address to you -- which is not about your observance of holidays, but rather about your trying to get others to follow suit. Are you saying I'm sinning by even mentioning that? If so, then what about Paul, who wrote the material I am simply quoting here? Are you saying it was good for him to write it, but wrong for me to quote it in order to compare it against your statements and see if they align?

Sorry, forgot to address this one:

And read Zechariah 14 if you don't think that you should be doing the Holy Days...because you WILL be doing them in the future...like it or not.

First, a bit of history: the original (past) Feast of Tabernacles was laid out as part of the covenant God made, through the Law (Torah), with the Jews. What was it's purpose? Who had to celebrate it?

"All native-born Israelites are to live in booths so your descendants will know that I had the Israelites live in booths when I brought them out of Egypt. I am the LORD your God.'" (Lev 23:43)

Right! The obligation was on any native-born Jew! If a Jew was born in another country, was he or she obligated? And what the purpose of this feast? It was to commemorate being delivered from Egypt.

Next, determine if those who follow Jesus are still bound to the previous written covenant (Torah, "Law") God made with the Jews. For example, read Romans 7:

Do you not know, brothers — for I am speaking to men who know the law — that the law has authority over a man only as long as he lives? For example, by law a married woman is bound to her husband as long as he is alive, but if her husband dies, she is released from the law of marriage...

So, my brothers, you also died to the law (Torah) through the body of Christ ... by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (Rom 7:1,2,4,6)

And, in case you think I'm pulling a fast one, read Galatians 3 & 4, in particular:

Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. His son by the slave woman was born in the ordinary way; but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a promise.

These things may be taken figuratively, for the women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother...

But what does the Scripture say? "Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman's son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman's son." Therefore, brothers, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman. (Gal 4:21-26,30-31)

So Paul says there are two covenants in question, and we are to be under the one made in Jerusalem, not the one made in Sinai.

Now let's take a look at the chapter you've cited, about a future "Feast of Tabernacles" to see what we can learn:

Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech 14:16)

Where the purpose of the old feast was to commemorate the Jews' deliverance from Egypt, the purpose of the future feast is to commemorate the time when the all the non-Jewish nations of the world attacked Jerusalem.

Moreover, where the past feast was required only for native-born Jews, but not people from other nations, this feast is required for survivors from other nations, with no mention of any requirement for native-born Jews -- the exact opposite!

So, unless you're arguing that you know I will, in the future, be a survivor living in a nation which will have attacked Jerusalem, I don't see where you have evidence that I, personally, will be required to observe this "feast". (And note this passage is depicting earth, not heaven!)

Next, let's notice where each feast had to be observed. Under the "old" covenant, the feast had to be observed "before the LORD" (Lev 23:40), which would have meant before the temple in Jerusalem or (previous to that) the Ark of the Covenant. The future feast will be required to be celebrated, as you can see, in Jerusalem:

If any of the peoples of the earth do not go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, they will have no rain. If the Egyptian people do not go up and take part, they will have no rain. The LORD will bring on them the plague he inflicts on the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that do not go up to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles. (Zech 14:17-19)

So you can see that it was very important to God that the feast MUST be celebrated by "going up" to Jerusalem. It was not sufficient to celebrate it in another place! God would be really angry if the feast were defiled in such a fashion, sending plauges and withholding rain!

So, um, if you claim you're celebrating this future feast, then are you in fact obeying his rules on how to celebrate it -- by going to Jerusalem each year? Unless you could say "yes", it would seem you're not celebrating it at all!

And if this future celebration is required right now, then why isn't God keeping the rest of the covenant he describes as being associated with it -- such as keeping it from raining in Egypt? (Since they certainly haven't been keeping it!)

The answer is obvious: There was one kind of Feast required in the past covenant -- a feast for Jews and not Gentiles -- and another kind in a future covenant -- one for the Gentiles (the Hebrew word "Gowy", meaning "Gentiles" is translated here as "Nations"), with promises of rain and plague if not obeyed. And you are a Gentile (most likely), living now, under neither of those two.

Again, so you won't be confused, I'm not saying you can't keep whatever feast you find profitable. If it helps you, that's wonderful! But understand you (and especially other believers) are, according to Paul, living in the covenant given at Jerusalem, not that given at Sinai.

Or has someone deceived you on this crucial point?

The article by Tighe is online. He does not mention Saturnalia at all. Aurelian instituted the pagan festival of the "Birth of the Unconquered Son [sic, according to Tighe]", [other sources call it the "Birth of the Unconquered Sun"], by which he meant to elevate himself to godhood by identifying with the Sun, and thus compete with other solar cults of the day (Mithra, Isis).

Saturn, a god of Etruscan (ie pre-Roman) origins, had his festival, Saturnalia, celebrated for the entire week leading up to Dec 25.

In any case, the following quote about Saturnalia from the Roman, Seneca the Younger, inconveniently predates Aurelian by a couple of centuries: “It is now the month of December, when the greatest part of the city is in a bustle. Loose reins are given to public dissipation; everywhere you may hear the sound of great preparations, as if there were some real difference between the days devoted to Saturn and those for transacting business....Were you here, I would willingly confer with you as to the plan of our conduct; whether we should eve in our usual way, or, to avoid singularity, both take a better supper and throw off the toga. — From Epistulae morales ad Lucilium” ca. 50 AD

The cult of Mithra (a solar deity)(to name one), of ancient Persian origin, was also widespread at this time. As a mystery cult, its rites would hardly be written down, but Mithra's birthday was also celebrated on December 25. Archeo-astronomical studies find evidence of pre-historic sacred sites oriented so as to determine solstices and/or equinoxes. On many of these kinds of pagan sites, Christian churches were later erected, and even their orientation has a solar-related aspect.

What's wrong with celebrating the solstice? God may give life, but the sun is also necessary for life; if this bothers you, think of it as part of the hand of God, by whatever name(s) he goes under.