Although I think it's great that people are lead to Christ through the Quixtar 'Opportunity', I must say that it is disturbing and somewhat scary to think about the potential for a person becoming jaded and doubtful of their faith when they realize they were lied to by the very people who lead them to Jesus.

I have a father in law who is an IBO for whom a Diamondship is his ultimate goal. He came to Christ through this which is great and then he began attending the church where I work as an executive staff member. This is a large, strong, Christ-centered church so I am hopeful that when he realizes the dead end he's headed for with Quixtar, we (his brothers and sisters in Christ) will be supportive enough to help him keep his faith strong despite the betrayal (known or unknown) by his upline.

Did it increase your faith at one point?
No. (I was in Gala LOS, all hindu except my upline and sponsor who were Muslims. But I did hear a lot of 'Quixtianity' in seminars and tapes)

Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left? Or at the time?
No

Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?
My upline did objected me having a beard. Typical ambot clean shaved apparel was the goal. Having a beard is preferred for Muslims, not a must.

Also, he made fun of ppl who pray in Holy month of Ramadan and pause q-business. My parents and me HATED it to put Muslim prayers down in front of non-muslims by a Muslim!

Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent? Or did it encourage you to look into it?
Neither. As I said, many speakers were Indians, non-Christian. I didn't like the anti-environment stance of Bill Britt. That goes somewhat against my religion.

If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected?
No, but was done by my upline who was a Muslim himself. See above.

Or was there any heavy-handed attempts to pressure you into something you didn't believe?
Mmmm not heavy, but it was insulting, e.g. If I had said to some christian downline, "Man, your going to church on Sunday is ridiculous. You should build business at that time"

For the record, I never said that to any one. Just an example.

Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live?
Not really. I'm lot carefull now though.

Do you treat other people better?
Same. I'm a friendly guy and a good listener. However I don't like many social circles where center is booze, music and smole. If there were more events without them, I definitely would have a big circle. But I am satisfied with the way I treat ppl. Quixtar didn't change (or make me any better).

Although now I'm not scanning every one as a prospect.

Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly?
No.

Or did it draw you away from whatever faith you had?
Not at all.

In order not to fill your comments section up with all my long answers. I have opted to answer them at my own blog.

You can read my response here at:

http://daveontheroad.blogspot.com/2005/02/random-survey.html#comments

So, the question I'm posing to anyone who wants to answer is: How has this organization affected your view or relationship with God? I'm not interested in short-term effects, such as "I made a decision" but more long-term effects.

Did it increase your faith at one point?

Absolutely not. The more time I spent with the team the more dispondant and jaded I became. It was so clear to me that the friendship and concern were fake.

Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left? Or at the time?

Yes. At the point I left, I recall telling an upline mentor that he was no leader and I'd rather spend an eternity in hell if he and his wife were going to be in heaven. I still keep my faith gaurded and to my chest. I don't ever want someone to take the fact that I believe in God and use it to try to control me again.

Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?

It has made me very unwilling to trust people I've just met and maybe that's a good thing. I have a much better understanding of what the Bible meant about being careful of listening to "false prophets." I've seen first hand dozens of people get manipulated into believing that worshiping money is worshiping God. Very scary stuff.

Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent? Or did it encourage you to look into it?

Already having a Christian background it made me very sad to see people using Christianity to manipulate their team into spending more money. It makes me ill. I'm not stupid, though, Christianity just happened to be the religion someone at the top decided to exploit. It wouldn't have been any different if he had decided to exploit a different faith. We'd be having this same discussion regardless of the religion.

If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected? Or was there any heavy-handed attempts to pressure you into something you didn't believe?

As a Christian, I still got some heavy handed pressure. Any attempt to think for myself resulted in the "Do you really think God would approve" bullcrap.

Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live? Do you treat other people better? Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly? Or did it draw you away from whatever faith you had?

Before I got entangled in this thing I had no debt. Now I have tons, so YES it changed my life and not for the better. I had no time for anything outside of the business while I was trying to be "Core" and gain acceptance fromt he group. All the required activities left my calendar booked and my body sleep deprived. I don't see how on earth I could have ever done anything non-quixtar while I was still involved. There was no time. As far as my faith, I'm stronger, but probably more jaded. It's a draw regarding wheather I'm better off for it.

What are your actual, first-hand experiences?

Oh.. developing ulcers because of the so-called self-proclaimed leaders of the group that had so entirely engulfed my social life that no one else was allowed in was telling me that my lack of success in the business was due to my lack of faith in God. Getting told on a weekly basis that God is first, then family, then the business then getting chastized when I needed to skip a meeting to care for family members. The rhetoric is this: You skipped a meeting to take care of your family member. You didn't put God first because you didn't go to the meeting and you let your family member down because going to the meeting concerns that family member's future. You can't be faithful if you don't care about your family's future and you don't care about your family's future if you don't take the business seriously and you don't take the business seriously because you missed that meeting. Go figure. Jerks. I'd like to be very clear that my distain is directed to a specific set of people I was directly involved with. I can't speak for others, and I don't intend for my experiences to be read as being universally standard. If the shoe fits, however... ah.. I'm done.

I posted these over at QBlog's...but will repost here for the rest of the world.

1. No. It did nothing to increase my faith in any religion.

2. Yes, as an agnostic, I was concerned by the apparant intertying of religion and the business.

3. Nope.

4. To me, yes. They represented a necessity to be Christian to succeed in the business that was a gift from their god.

5. My beliefs were (as well as others) were questioned with the "well aren't [they] Christian?" should it matter? It is supposed top be a business of selling products supplied by Quixtar, not a faith based following of someone whom you purchase tapes and "tools" from.

6. I have always respected individuals rights to practive whatever religiuon they want. and anyone who is more interested in my becoming their religion than themselves just practiving their religion is a concern. They tend to act as though their personal salvation depends on whether or not I believe in their god, and that is just plain rude of them to interject themselves upon me in that way.

7. Listening to my upline (Kershbaum) bragging about how Diamonds Ron Goldman and his wife "used to be Jewish" and were "saved by this business".

Roger

1. Did it increase your faith at one point?

* Yes it sure did!!! It was not Quixtar the Company, but the people associated with this business that caused me to increase my faith in God. These are all real people who after seeing them over time made me come to realize that God was real. These successful people had a real relationship with there Lord and savior which made me question my self. Yes there were many that did not proclaim to know God, but the Man that carried the responsibility of sponsoring me Help me out and used his business as a Ministry and did reach me.

2. Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left? Or at the time?

* No it did not make me more cynical. To be brutally honest, the hardest thing for a Man to do is Change. I think to be cynical it made me look more at myself and who I was. It brought the best out in me and caused me to change for the better or live the way I was.

3. Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?

* The only bad experience I have had was with me getting over my own ego and letting people who have gone before me help me. Most men are like I was. So pig headed and so egotistical that they go there whole life with know one they can call a friend. Friendship is earned thru servitude. The only Bad experience I have had was going thru college and someone saying that is the secrete to getting ahead.

3. Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent? Or did it encourage you to look into it?

* No it did not give me a Bad view of Christianity. What it has done is given me the eyes to see and hear while magnifying the people around me and other Christians who are not doing what Jesus told us to do. It showed me most Christians are not exercising there Authority of being a believer, so it did encourage me.

4. If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected? Or was there any heavy-handed attempts to pressure you into something you didn't believe?

* I was not a Christian when I started with this Team. Actually I was very bitter at God and Christianity and refused to go to Church based on the people I saw claiming to be Godly. In this team I saw compassion which never pushed me one way or another. They always said people of all backgrounds were welcomed and were very respected since I fell into this category, but over time I saw love and unity which soften my heart and caused me to really question the big questions people have in life. It caused me to be responsible enough to seek it myself. What do you know, like many before me the truth was very revealing.

5. Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live? Do you treat other people better? Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly? Or did it draw you away from whatever faith you had?

Yes the experience has made a Real Huge difference in my life for a positive. Yes I think you could ask all my family and friends and they would come to the same conclusion. Some might say they would like to see me more or hang out with them, but let me shed a bit of truth. Some might miss me since I cared more about what I think is right and got myself out of going to strip clubs, downing shots of 151, and become responsible enough to live a life worth following. Not Following like you might be ALEGIDLY thinking, but being worthy of any parent not minding if there Kids hung out with me or there Daughter going out with me and not worrying about them.

Yes I treat other people better! If you Read books that the leadership Recommends you can only improve in how you teat others. We are Human though and need constant improvement.

Yes being associated with Quixtar did help me to get involved with NON-Quixtar Events from Church to helpful organizations to caring about this countries future like participating for the first time in the last election.

6. What are your actual, first-hand experiences?

My actual experiences with the company have been great. From time to time you may have a glitch, but overall it has been great. Most of the experience is not with the company but with the Team I plug in which is part of the BWW organization I think there are about 3 or 4 big Models. My experience has been that people want to believe this is real, but most have given up on life and are so programmed to live an average life that they do not want anything else.
Others want to just be part of something bigger than them and some truly use this engine as a tool for reaching people to make a difference. The automotive company that I work for would not let us talk about any opinions or beliefs I had without HR breathing down your neck instilling the fear of loosing your income. What is cool here is you can build an income and not have to fall victim to not being allowed to share your beliefs or faith what ever they might be.
This business gives you an I.BO # which stands for Independent Business Owner and if you build a Team them you can reflect your views. I am proud that we are part of making history. I am proud of the fact that if this team did not exist the liberal media may have won the last Presidential election, but because of this team States were won because people are doing the hard thing. Helping people educate people on truth and not just learning from a text book. Have a great day. Remember Freedom is not free, but earned with thru serving others.

Wow!

What it has done is given me the eyes to see and hear while magnifying the people around me and other Christians who are not doing what Jesus told us to do.
So doing this business is doing what Jesus told to do? And doing any thing else is not exercising there Authority of being a believer. Yup, heard that. Heard that a lot.

So President, Armed forces, Fireman, Doctors, all are non-believer on Christianity? And are not helping people? And being unsuccessful?

This business gives you an I.BO # which stands for Independent Business Owner

Is it independent? To get that number you have to sign for BSMAA which takes away your right to go to court if you have any dispute. If you need to go fulltime, you need tool income, which u can't dispute if u have a problem. Diamonds fight like dogs for tool money after seminar. Ever served one? So u r putting ur time and effort at the mercy of some kingpin with no guaranttee. Does't sound independent to me!

Oh and u can't have your own website? Quixtar will cancel ur IBO # if you do.

Independent, Ha!

Q1) Did it increase your faith at one point?
A1) No.

Q2A) Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left?
A2A) No more so than before.

Q2B) Or at the time?
A2B) No more so than already existed.

Q3) Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?
A3) More along the lines of what happened to me. It made me question things a bit more depply and thoughtfully.

Q4A) Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent?
A3A) No, it only made me doubt their sincerity as the bible has verses that warn against those who are false. They will claim to posess true belief and knowledge from God, but this will be a lie and a sham. You will know them by their deeds - which will be evil. Enough said.

Q4B) Or did it encourage you to look into it?
A4B) Nope, just feel sorry for they who were bringing judgement by God upon themselves.

Q5A) If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected?
A5A) N/A

Q5B) Or was there any heavy-handed attempts to pressure you into something you didn't believe?
A5B) Not so much heavy handed as attempts at converting my viewpoints by trying to indoctrinate us into Quixtianity - or otherwise known as the GOd of My $ucce$$ - [the almighty dollar].

Q6A) Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live?
A6A) Yes it did for a little while when i was in duplication.

Q6B) Do you treat other people better?
A6B) Quite the opposite, I presented a facade. I had everyone with a pseudo bulls-eye painted upon their forheads until I got through to prospecting them. Often times the bulles-eye would be replaced with a big L.

Q6C) Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly?
A6C) Not from the stage talk. It stressed that we would benefit from the non-denominational Sunday services. They also hinted that the business would be the thing to bring you to salvation. Bah!!

Q6D) Or did it draw you away from whatever faith you had?
A6D) Nope. Made me rebel against Quixtianity actually.

Q7) What are your actual, first-hand experiences?
A7) My answers above are enough for now. Just remembering the crap that was spewed out of the people on stag was enough to remond me how glad I am that I no longer participate and how I can now tlak and converse with people without an ulterior motive.

1.) technically yes as I got saved at one of the functions. I think it was inevitable anyways as my wife was working on me subtly.

2.) absolutely more cynical. I didn't know what to believe anymore. I used to believe my upline and take their word on everything. I totally submitted based on the premise that they had the life that I wanted so I would listen to them. Plus they would never do anything to hurt, as they constantly told me. Since they hid themselves behind Christian conservatism, it made it seem more real. When I found out the reasons why they do certain things, and that they had lied to my face, it shook me to my very core. (long winded answer. I could go on and on..)
3.) I felt I had grown up in this business and wasn't sure if the things I believed were from them or my own convictions. I had to re-examine my whole life including my faith.
4.) at first it almost did give it a bad view, because it was such an integral part of the business. How many times have they stated that this was a business ordained by God. However that is something I am dealing with now.
5.) at first I was not a Christian and I felt there was a lot of pressure, mostly from on stage, not from my upline however. It is heavily woven into the business, mostly as a hook to guilt people into staying .
6.) I honestly tried to be a better person. I read as many books as I could afford and tried to be an ambassador to the business. What I accomplished was cutting off anyone who wasn't in the business. They either ran away or I pushed them away. With a long distance upline that only gave time/friendship to "performers" (remember, they would say, don't spend productive time with nonproductive people, ie, CORE), and we didn't crossline(big no no.) we ended up very lonely. I didn't attend anything or have any hobbies as I didn't want to take away from the business in case I could actually get someone to sit down and the see the plan. I was trained to be a person that had no boundries

When I read that post from TJ it amazed me how much those keywords stand out. I was not planning on posting, as I am not proud of how long I was in and what I have thrown away by being in all this time, but reading his post almost makes me physically ill. I recognize those statements they used to make from stage, that they just flung out to us. Quite frankly, it fills me with rage. :( I'm so pissed I didn't even spell check this, but I bet I'll have less spelling errors than the typical proQuixtar post.

This is written in comment to Imaran Aziz comments posted from: Imran Aziz on February 19, 2005 01:38 AM

1. My thoughts I wrote were based on the questions above. I did not see where your comments of my thoughts were to be dissected and commented by you and you non positive attitude.

2. I did not in anyway say other professions were bad or people doing other things meant they were not successful at all in anyway.

Imaran Aziz- Said “So doing this business is doing what Jesus told to do? And doing any thing else is not exercising there Authority of being a believer- Also He said.” So President, Armed forces, Fireman, Doctors, all are non-believer on Christianity? And are not helping people? And being unsuccessful?”

TJ and My Answer – No, Doing this business is not what Jesus commanded people to do and doing just this and nothing else is not even close to anything I said or implied. In fact it is hard to believe you would even have that perception since that is WOW actually Crazy in thought. I find it hard to believe you would be that narrow minded to even believe that. Believers come in all shapes, sizes, careers, colors, backgrounds and ect. This Team and business is just an option for those who need it. I have many friends that this was not for and many of them are the profession’s you commented about. I do not think an lesser of them. On the other hand it was for some of my other friends. Well my point is Jesus told us to go and serve people and help them overcome by being a good example while sharing with them the truth if they are open to it. To be honest I could be involved with a bunch of other things, but you know what I have to pay respect that if this Team was able to reach me and my hard attitude, then it has to be good enough to reach others, because it did me. It may not be for you and that is o.k. I do not bash what your doing or not doing.

3. I have found that when people criticize others it usually is because they have not figure out how to focus on themselves and how to improve there life first. They would rather take there time and analyze the world and those around them. As for the company we do business with, Yes they have rules no different than say McDonalds. Yes, if you decide to call the Big Mac the “Big Aziz” they will take your Franchise away too, but at McDonald that is seen as o.k. You’re just looking for something to criticize. Our company is not perfect but I do thank God that they get criticized on a daily basis by people like you since they are willing to listen and change to help the IBO in many ways, but that can not happen all over night.

4. Imaran Aziz- This question is for you! Honestly if you have another Plan that you can impact people in a positive way, create a good example for your family thru working, do in a way that the corporate world will not hold you down or frown on you for succeeding, and it is legal and you can be rewarded in all prosperous areas not just financial- The Whole Package! Ford Motor Company did not have this plan for me. SO PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR PLAN AND THE FRUIT ON YOUR TREE and I will consider doing what your doing if you do not have a solution go back to what your doing. It is o.k.

I recognize this classic defense tactic, I used to think the same way.

"Show me something better, or lets evaluate your business plan and see if it stands up."

Also the Fruit on the Tree, how I used to love that one. I used to be able to point to my upline and say, "Check the fruit on the tree, if there was something better they'd be doing it." Well I did, and I found that the ones that were making it, were not honest about how they made their money and most of the others were "faking it till they made it" and going broke or running themselves ragged.

The arguement is that used from stage is that if you can't show me something better then your complaints are not valid. As if that in itself somehow validates this business. Sorry, I don't believe there is anything that is legal and honest out there that delivers the kinds of results that are promised in this business. Mind you it has to be both legal and HONEST. I emphasize that word as the Quixtar business and the AMO's are still technically legal, but far from honest.

Would we except that kind of arguement from someone that robs banks? Show me something better or shut up?

Just to be clear, I have no problem with you making lots of money. Make all you want, wallpaper your house with it for all I care. What I have a problem with is the practices of certain AMO's and the servicing corporation that allows them the free reign. If you step in and defend them, expect people that have been wronged by them to associate you with their practices.

to quote:
"I have found that when people criticize others it usually is because they have not figure out how to focus on themselves and how to improve there life first."

I disagree. It doesn't require someone to be perfect to figure out if something is a bad deal or if someone is hurting them. I don't have to be perfect in order to have a problem with someone mugging me. Sometimes you can tell something is wrong no matter how screwed up you are.

Following up on Puzzlin's comments to TJ...

Honestly if you have another Plan that you can impact people in a positive way, create a good example for your family thru working, do in a way that the corporate world will not hold you down or frown on you for succeeding, and it is legal and you can be rewarded in all prosperous areas not just financial...

First, the fact that you refer to "Plans" is an indication you've already lost. Nobody in the real world argues about this or that "Plan" -- they look at this or that business -- real existing structures which actually make money, not hope to some day. They compare them according to how much wealth each is likely to produce.

But, since you ask: Here's a "Plan" which is more lucrative AND ethical than Quixtar: (1) Go to McDonald's. (2) Pick up an employment application. (3) Fill it out and apply. (4) Go to work. (5) Receive and deposit paycheck in bank.

What's that you say? This only pays minimum wage? So what? Quixtar claims active IBOs only work 40 hours a month and earn an average of $115 per month. If so that's $2.86 per hour -- a tiny fraction of minimum wage. Minimum wage is therefore many times more lucrative.

What's that you say? You're saying this isn't a "good example through working?" Why not? In Quixtar, you tried to sign people up without telling them what the odds of success and average pay were likely to be -- even though that's something you yourself would have wanted. Thus you violate the Golden Rule. So by taking a minimum wage job, you've moved a step up, ethically. In addition, your work now produces something useful for someone else, where showing the "Plan" created no wealth whatsoever.

What's that you say? There isn't an unlimited earning potential? Who cares -- you can't buy lunch or provide for your family with an "unlimited potential". Theoretically, I could earn millions of dollars just walking around looking for dropped money. People could theoretically drop really, really big bills -- the potential is unlimited!!! But the odds are exceedingly low. The same can be said of the lottery. At some point you have to consider your likely return, and stop pretending all the birds in the bush are yours.

So, now that I've shown you that minimum wage pays several times more than Quixtar, and is superior by every measure you've demanded, will you now quit Quixtar and use that time to work for minimum wage?

Or were just being insincere when you'd said you'd seriously consider other alternatives?

TJ -
3. I have found that when people criticize others it usually is because they have not figure out how to focus on themselves and how to improve there life first. They would rather take there time and analyze the world and those around them.

Wrong. I am just voicing my opinion. Just like I do about politics, religion, sports and other stuff. Any body who does that, have not figured how to improve their lives? Lame lame lame.

If you can't handle different point of views, you are doing some thing that you are not deep down comfortable with.

As for the company we do business with, Yes they have rules no different than say McDonalds. Yes, if you decide to call the Big Mac the “Big Aziz” they will take your Franchise away too, but at McDonald that is seen as o.k. You’re just looking for something to criticize. Our company is not perfect but I do thank God that they get criticized on a daily basis by people like you since they are willing to listen and change to help the IBO in many ways, but that can not happen all over night.

Quixtar is like McDonald , Ha! Heard that in every damn single open. But it's grossly misleading. Do you know what franchising is?

http://tim.2wgroup.com/blog/archives/000792.html

I can write an essay but McDonalds does not sell 90% of their products to each other. They have a thing that is very rare to Quixtar: End Customer.

4. Imran Aziz- This question is for you! Honestly if you have another Plan that you can impact people in a positive way, create a good example for your family thru working, do in a way that the corporate world will not hold you down or frown on you for succeeding, and it is legal and you can be rewarded in all prosperous areas not just financial- The Whole Package! Ford Motor Company did not have this plan for me. SO PLEASE SHOW ME YOUR PLAN AND THE FRUIT ON YOUR TREE and I will consider doing what your doing if you do not have a solution go back to what your doing. It is o.k.
You are being answered. Just so you know:

Profit = Quixtar income - expenses.

What did you reported on ur taxes? Profit / Loss?

Quixtar is a business. It's not a religion right?

Read this page and let me know what you think

http://www.amquix.info/amway.html

And talking to you: I feel like I'm talking to me 2 years ago.

Did it increase your faith at one point? Somewhat

Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left? Or at the time? Yes

Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?

Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent? Or did it encourage you to look into it? It encouraged me to look into it, but I was so tired of anyone behind a pulpit, with a microphone, and I don't believe all that Christianity tells you.

If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected? Or was there any heavy-handed attempts to pressure you into something you didn't believe? I did not feel as if other beliefs or non-beliefs were respected from the types of services they had on Sunday mornings, they were Christian services.

Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live? Yes, I hope I never treat people the way the Quixtar people do.

Do you treat other people better? I believe I learned that from the Golden Rule, "Treat others as you would like to be treated".

Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly? Briefly after I got out, until I realized I don't believe all that Christianity teaches.

Or did it draw you away from whatever faith you had? No.

[This comment, an advertisment from Quixtar, has been deleted because (a) it is simply spam, and (b) large sections were written in upper-case letters.

What is it about Quixtar IBOs that makes them so inconsiderate and so unlikely to abide by the rules?]

umm ....
I've been working with this for 6 years and I'm an athiest. Never been an issue. Never been a problem. None of my upline I have regular contact with (including Crown Ambassadors) have ever asked me what my religious beliefs are, and I honestly don't have a clue about theirs. No, that's not quite true, I know one of my upline Emeralds is a Christian.
Quixtar doesn't "do" anything. IBOs do.

Luke 18:25 It is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a neddle than a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.

By teaching IBO's that money will make them successful and this success brings happiness. Not only that but this will bring you closer to God?

These lies tried to drive me away from God and his promise that I have significance regarless of my income.

I thank God that i made it out with out loosing my faith in that promise

If people are led to Christ, that's good, but
it leads me to ask:

Is quixtar a business or a church?

In the book of Timothy, it says the "love of money" is the root of all evil.

How does quixtar groups recruit people? By showing them that they can retire early, earn tons of money and have leer jets, mansions, nice cars, etc etc. So they recruit with money, or someone's desire for money.

Quixtar groups all worship the diamonds. Standing ovations, catering to them, whatever.

So the diamonds can be seen as "false idols".

Many diamonds also take all kinds of bibles verses out of context to justify what they do.

Sad.

It's why in many areas of the bible, it says it is very difficult for a rich man to enter heaven (not impossible, but difficult) because his focus is on money and not on God.

To all those that think they are following a religious business - I present to you the words of Birdie Yeager as she claims that God has fulfilled his covenant here on earth through the Quixtar Distributorship AND that God's has given her a new chapter to the book of Acts.

Read the following and decide for yourself if you are following a false prophet:

The speech is type in the manner of her speaking, with boken sentences, slang etc.

Birdie Yeager’s Speech about the new Chapter in the book of Acts, and the Covenant made between God and Amway Distributors

I’m excited you are here, because I know you are in the right place at the right time, (Big Applause) of course we are always are aren’t we, even when we don’t know it, were still right on time most of the time, don’t you agree, not our time but were right on time most of the time, some of us are slow like me, but I wanted to ask you, how many of you feel like when you are out there pounding those pavements, pounding those black boards or white boards or whatever, they are white now they used to be black. You can tell I draw the plan, can’t ya?

It’s going to be very exciting for you this afternoon. Veeerryy Exciitting oh baby, can’t even hardly wait myself. How many of you believe in the book of Acts, it’s in the bible in case on or two of you don’t know what I am talking about. How many of you believe in the book of Acts. Well, we just got another chapter today. Gee, it got quite in here, don’t you believe me? We got another chapter today. Just a few minutes ago, the Lord decided to walk in the door here at the Rock Hill Winford College Coliseum, I don’t know if that’s what you call it or not, but that is what I call it. He decided to walk in this door her today and talk to us, are you excited? Well I’m real excited, because when Sherri Meadows was reading it to me, boy, these people need to here this, uh, someone needs to read this tomorrow morning, and the Lord said to me, no, you need to read it this afternoon, really, this afternoon, Lord, why not tomorrow morning? He said because I want everybody here to know how I feel about ‘em. Halleluiah, ya see someone might not come tomorrow morning and they might miss knowing how I feel about them, I want everyone here this afternoon to know just how I feel about them. So I said ok, here it goes, ya ready, this was given this afternoon and it’s uh the subject, the topic is “From Darkness Into Light, given from the Father…….

” ahhh, My beloved Bride, isn't that enough, just to be called that, hello, where did we all go, are we there? Applause…just checking, how lovely you are in my sight for you have receive and clothed yourselves in the robes of righteousness which my son purchased for you with his own blood, wuuoo, don’t know if I can get through this or not, I can get through it, I can get through it. You are more beautiful than diamonds, more costly than gold more precious than silver, such a blessing you are to my heart when I see you stretch when I see you stride and when I see you grow toward the goal of the high calling I have issued to you. How I desire to restore to you that which your enemy has stolen, I delight in you reaching and believing for your health, your prosperity, the victory over you tongue and mind. For you have heard it said that even my people use but 10 percent of what I intended for them. Who has robbed reach, stretch, dream, and image more for yourself, you cannot trust the limits of what I imaged and dreamed for you when I first conceived you. Can you believe that I who withhold not my own son would withhold any good thing from you? Repent of the sins, cast off the bitterness and unforgiveness with which the enemy holds you bound. You have the key of binding and loosing. Loose yourself, I desire to release to you the abundance of heaven and you have the faith to confess it and come into the line with my will. Rise quickly for my army is forming, softly clothed in rich garments of praise, yet beneath the softness, richness and gentleness of their white robes will be found huck warriors with their whole armor in place and bandaging the word and their sword…Halleluiah they cry, for our God reigns (applause) yet how many of you find yourselves in darkness hanging on to the end of your rope, you have tied a knot and hung on, your persistence is admirable, but the rope is connected to self, your old man, you think that to let go would mean a long drop into you know not what, you have heard me call you to let go, yet you complain that you cannot see where to go. Ohhhh, my beloved, open your eyes of faith and know today that if you let go, the drop is but inches to solid rock. Yet those inches make all the difference, on the rock you will be able to see clearly for the light steams from it
Come to me beloved, spend time with me, learn of me, develop and grow in the relationship I have given you and beneath the sponsorship I have placed you. I am personally involved with each one of you. Go out in my strength power and victory. See what I will do through you and my earth, you are my hands and my feet. The Bride groom patiently awaits. I Love you.”

(Applause, weeping, etc) Stand up, I want everyone of you that is clapping, I want you to clap for the Lord, Halleluiah, Halleluiah, God we love you, we praise you and we love to have you speak to us, ahhhhhh don’t you love it, ain't it great….whheew, man I tell you what, I think I am just gonna go on up, I see you all later, much later, ohhhh, man, ain’t it great. (Big Applause) Thank you Father for your visit. I’m learning that visits aren’t always a two way street. The best visit are one way. Right? And ya know, why do we worry? Why do we worry? I came over her this morning, saying I don’t have one thing in my mind, my mind is just about as blank as anything. What am I going to talk about? He had it all figured out already, that’s why he wasn’t telling me till I got here. Ain’t it great. He said let go, what are we supposed to let go of…ourselves. Get the self off the throne. I used to read something’s in the bible ya know with Isaiah, Jeremiah, and I’d think, Gosh Lord, how come you don’t say these profound things to us. I mean they were so profound that I didn’t understand what they were saying, but, they did, sometimes. Same it is today. I mean I think I wish you would tell us some things like this today. He is. (holding up paper) He is. Do you know that He has never stopped writing the book of acts? That’s the only book, well, I mean, not the only book, but the bible is the only book that does not have an ending. Just keeps on going, keeps on going, new chapters everyday. Doesn’t that give you so much fulfillment to know you’re are where you are supposed to be? Don’t you know this business was put together by him? You know it has never really bothered Dex and I when people would put this business down. Cause it just told us well ya got more work to do, just shows ya got more work to do. And then people ask us why don’t we stop and rest, well why don’t you retire, my god, you are rich enough. See, they don’t understand that we are not building this business to get rich. We are building this business because God told us to and He is making us rich. (Applause), because He does that with everyone who obeys him. That is what He told us He would do. That is one of the things that He told us He would do if we did what He told us to do. He’s doing it, we’re just so thankful and appreciative that He has something for us to do. It gives us so much meaning and fulfillment too.

Do you know the story of Abraham, or have you just heard about it? If you’ve just heard about it then you probably missed hearing the most important part - that you can hear that involves you. Did you know that there is YOU in the story of Abraham? Did you know that through the Amway business that God is establishing his covenant on this earth, through you? Do you know how He is doing that? He told Abraham that his covenant that He would establish his covenant on this earth through, does anybody know? WEALTH, - how many knew that? my gosh, I don’t believe it, how many knew that? What did Satan do with it, what did he do with it as soon as he found out, as soon as he heard God say that, what did he do, does anybody know? He turned around and perverted the covenant, wouldn’t you say? Now doesn’t it give you more motivation to get out there five and six nights a week after hearing from the Lord what you’re doing is OK? Got it right from him out of his mouth saying it is wonderful, for you to be doing what you’re doing? And telling you he’s even placed you in the sponsorship you are in. Now that’s exciting to me, I mean I can’t find anything out more exciting to find out that He has put me right where I am. And you know what, I still don’t even know the reason He put me where I am, but I don’t care. Doesn’t matter. He’s given me so much excitement for being where I am, and knowing that, that I can’t tell you what it is like to live in constant excitement about what is going to happen today or tomorrow. I can’t tell you what it’s like. It is beyond the English language. It’s so good. I don’t even know what to tell you. I just… I’m just so glad you are here, that you obeyed God. That you knew you had to be here. And, ya know, so many times you come and you don’t know why you have to come, right? Before you come, you really don’t know why you have to come. And what is so dadburned important about being here.

(this part that follows makes no sence, maybe the tape was edited here, because it doesn’t flow with the previous comments, oh, maybe she lost her train of thought and just started talking about whatever, she isn’t exactly logical in anything she says if you break it down and examine it.)

But I tell you what, I’ve turned into the best cleaning lady I’ve ever known the last three weeks. Cleaning lady, Carpenter, um, whatever, washing women, and after you’ve remolded the way we did, you can’t touch anything that doesn’t have to be cleaned, you couldn’t even touch a piece of paper without wiping it off. But now, it’s so exciting that every little tincy wincey thing in my house is CLEAN. For awhile. Do you hear me gals, for awhile, not unless I find a cleaning women, cause I aint’ doing it again, I don’t mind running the sweeper and doing dishes and mopping a floor now and then, but I tell you what I ain’t doing what I did the last three weeks I ain’t gonna do that very often in the next year.

I must not forget this, I got to get off of here because, I’m telling ya this clock keeps changing on me. For those of you that appreciated this little visit. This will be available tomorrow morning, copies of this. Please don’t make more than one, so that everyone that everybody that wants one can have one and then you can go home and make copies of what you want. Ok? And I know that had I promised some of you that you could have copies of the other one and I know some of you haven’t got em. But bear with us, just keep asking, does that sound familiar. The Greek word for ask really means keep on asking till you get it. And don’t ask only me ask anyone that you think might have one. Right? Cause I’m only one person too, so you’ll get it, ok? I just love ya. And I’m excited for you, I am really excited for you, if take what is here what he is saying to you and you go home and put it to work and by putting it to work right away I mean getting it in here (heart) so it becomes no doubt, in your mind, of who you are. Can you understand what I am saying? Take this home with you and if you have too, read it everyday, I used to put mine on the refrigerator, to heck with the pictures, if I can get this in my heart and spirit I don’t need pictures, I can go where the pictures are, right? Cause once you get it in here, you can’t put pictures in here, you can put pictures in here the same way you put this in here, then you never lose it. Ain’t it great? (Applause) This is your treasure bag (heart) this is where Satan can’t come steal anything from. It’s only from here (mind) he steals. Once it gets in here folks, it’s locked up. He can’t have it. He don’t have the key. Establishes Himself on this earth. Have a great day, we love you.

Margie,

Isn't there also a transcript where dexter yager thinks he is god?

Okay, I am reading all of this from everyone, and the majority looks as though, Quixtar, in itself, is a legit business--it is the people in them that are the ones making it seem like an occult.

Now, if someone would like to e-mail me or comment me that would be great.

My girl friend from school just got involved with a "friend" of mine, and he is involved in Quixtar [apx 6 months into it I believe]. I hadn't ever heard of the company before, but I definitely know of Amway. I never thought badly of this company, but that's not the point.

Anyway- they have known each other for two months, and just recently got engaged. Needless to say, myself and like ALL of our friends, are DEEPLY concerned, more because we don't understand their need to "rush"... they plan on getting married in June 07.

Regardless, my friends and I sat down with our friend to see WHY on EARTH she is rushing this. [She is 20, by the way, and he is 22]. She tells us, "I feel like I've known him forever..." okay, that doesn't rationalize a decision to get married right away.... "Well, I just have a different mindset than you guys...." Okay, you mean? "Well, I can't really take advice from you guys [which has never been the case before!!] because you basically aren't in my position [pinpointing that we aren't engaged--which her roommate is- that was there] and I can't take advice from people that don't want what I want. Basically, you are on a different path than me, and we know from God that this is where we need to be."

Needless to say, we were shocked. Not only because she wouldn't listen to her best friend that is engaged --saying anything she says isn't valid, even though, she'd be a better judge of a relationship than a single person in some aspects-- but she was very very much set in repeating herself like a broken record... "I have a different mindset, I can only listen to those that support us and are positive in us succeeding... I can't listen to your opinions because you aren't where I am... I can't explain it... I can't explain it... I can't explain it."

Okay, so my real question is... WHAT is going ON in those meetings? Because seriously, she seems brainwashed by her new fiancé, and he won't listen to ANY of us, mainly because he says-- how I've read a few times on here--
"You guys do not bear fruit on your tree that shows me that you are capable of giving advice, and you aren't supportive of us and our decision. I know this is from God himself, and we will have a marriage that everyone will envy [his word, not mine] and we look up to people [in the Quixtar business] that have successful marriages and actually care about us succeeding. We don't need your discouragement and unwanted advice [when our girl friend asked us what we thought, so no it's not unwanted] because that is just criticism and we don't need that and we are getting married."

He continues to use out of context Bible verses like they are going out of style. [And yes, I am a Christian, so that concerns me much more].

He also says we are not their true friends [speaking for her and brainwashing her] if we are not supportive and keep giving "criticism." Therefore, he is trying to push us away, her REAL FRIENDS... and started this big thing on his xanga [ijustateacrayon] about how we don't bear the fruit and that people who aren't where they are, aren't supportive and true friends.
Needless to say, that made us ALL REALLY ANGRY.

You seriously try to reason and say you care and don't want to see them end up divorcing or something, because honestly... marriages like that don't last when you DON'T EVEN KNOW ONE ANOTHER!

He also says that, the biggest failure in marriages is because of the lack of money. My friend told me that they know they are going to be financially set because of doing Quixtar and isn't worried about it, because she "knows" that they will make a lot of money. Just like she "knows" that he is 'the one' for her, and just like she "knows" that they will never get divorced.

I BEG TO DIFFER.

I, being an almost college graduate; studying Psychology, have learned the biggest cause for marital failure is generally the lack of communication between a couple. Of course, financial strain has a big play in it too, especially when you combine the two together. But as we all know, you could be the richest man in the world, and still have the loneliest soul out there.

And as the Bible says, don't store your treasures here on earth...

It will only lead you into darkness and selfishness that WILL cost you your marriage.

So, do you have any advice combating this?

Elle,

Your friend is getting married because in quixtar, they encourage it. They teach that there is a 1% divorce rate among couples involved in the business (even though 2/3 or so quit each year). They also teach you to commit to things. In other words, commit to a relationship, commit to the business. Sadly, I don't believe that quixtar saves marriages or has a lower divorce rate that the rest of the world.

For now, you probably won't be able to change her mind as the upline always teaches you to trust their advice as they have a financial interest in your success, unlike your friends.

I hope things work out though.

I have a lot of quixtar articles written on my blog: http://ohana.lava.net/blogs/Joecool18
if you are interested in more information.

Thanks- I'll check it out.

Thanks- I'll check it out.

None in my own personal experience, Jay.

1) Did it increase your faith at one point?

Yes. My involvement in qstar helped me disassociate with some bad influences in my life

2) Did it make you more cynical about religion when you left? Or at the time?

No. Just cynical about the Prosperity Gospel and Word-Faith movements.

3) Or did having a bad experience cause you to try to clarify your own values?

My values are clarified on the Chrisitan view on wealth after studying the Prosperity Gospel which was preached in my group.

4) Did it give you a bad view of Christianity, the faith they pretend to represent? Or did it encourage you to look into it?

Encouraged me to look into it farther.

5) If you're not a Christian, did you feel your own faith, or non-belief, was respected?

I'm a Christian.

6) Did your experiences make real differences in the way you live?

Yes. I was a Christian but associating with the wrong people. The biz allowed me to break those associations. In the end spending time with the team allowed me to associate with good people and make positive changes.

6) Do you treat other people better?

Same

7) Did being in Quixtar help you attend to get involved in non-Quixtar religious organizations regularly?

Kind of. I became more interested in going to church but I was always trying to catch up on sleep or busy showing the plan or travelling.