It wasn't just the sermon that angered Terry Ratzmann. Just before the service on the fatal morning, Ratzmann showed up without a gun. He was approached by the sister of Tom Gieger, the church spokesman. She actually teased Ratzmann about walking out on the service on Feb 26.

“Geiger said Ratzmann did react inappropriately to a joking comment made by his (Geiger's) sister before Saturday's service, in which she teased him about having walked out early Feb. 26. Ratzmann's face reddened, his jaw clenched and he turned away without saying anything, Geiger said.” (Statement of Thomas Geiger, from an interview, by Steve Schultze, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, March 16, 2005)

Following that interaction, Ratzmann left abruptly, went home and got his gun. He returned to the church and we know the rest of the story.

The above URL is an in-depth analysis of the case. Please review it for a better understanding of what occurred.

Ratzmann pulled the trigger and did all the killing, but the church certainly contributed to the outcome. Demons were not responsible as the church suggests, people were responsible.

In depth analysis of the church shooting case:

http://churchcase.workplaceviolence101.com/

This theory is absolutely absurd. Terry had major problems he was wrestling with, one of them being his desire to be married. So now someone indicates he had a drinking problem also. Actually, I found that tease of that morning to be an example of the coldness to his problems that could very well have existed in the local congregation. For that same lack of love is waxing colder in LCG congregations all over the globe today, and that coldness is a result of wrong church Government from the very top (except for Jesus himself).

Someone notes Bryce's sermon before the funeral as being "uncaring, unsupportive, and cold". That is totally the opposite of what many others thought. There were those who actually thought he did an amazing job. So I guess one hears what they want to hear.

Frankly, I personally suspect this whole web site might have been conjured up by someone who is afraid that Mr. Bryce will do a big work, and that person may be Dr. Meredith himself. He has no whims of allowing a lay person managing a whole web site of Biblical discourse as long as it serves his purposes.

Finally, God's ministers are to cry aloud, and spare not, and show my people their sins. I know of no one who does this in a more balanced, caring, loving, concerned, and well thought out manner than Mr. Bryce. His sermon on paying one's taxes and modesty is one example of this, but you won't be able to hear it because Living immediately took Bryce's sermons off the air after Merideth kicked him out for supporting the traditions and doctrines passed down by HWA.

Let's stop name calling and get back to the serious business of spreading the true gospel rather than an unbiblical and untruthful one spread by RCM and crew. Let's not make stories up about people. Let's love others in our local congregations instead of trying to excuse away Terry's or a local congregation's problems by trying to place the blame on one man's sermon. If one sermon causes one to shoot his own, the man was clearly sick for a long time before. His own congregation needed to see that and care for him and love him, instead of teasing him, etc.

Frankly, I personally suspect this whole web site might have been conjured up by someone who is afraid that Mr. Bryce will do a big work, and that person may be Dr. Meredith himself.

You would be quite wrong. As I said above, I am not in nor related to the WCG. Do a search on, say, Quixtar, and you'll find that this blog has a long history of focusing on other topics -- it does not exist simply to promulgate some particular theory or blame someone on this particular issue.

Let's love others in our local congregations instead of trying to excuse away Terry's or a local congregation's problems by trying to place the blame on one man's sermon...

I think you're confusing "blame" and "trigger." Above, I only suggest the sermon clearly "set Terry off." That doesn't mean it was bad or inappropriate. In fact, if you'd read the article above closely, you'd find that I suggest it may have carried a godly conviction that Terry didn't want to hear.

I could be wrong about that, but first let's at least be clear on what has been said, okay?

And don't fret that others have been able to post here, just as you have: All are welcomed on Random Observations provided they follow the few, simple rules regarding comments.

It is absolutely absurd to claim that a sermon by Charles Bryce caused Terry to go and kill others in LCG. Terry had longstanding problems of unemployment, longstanding cravings for a mate, and as one person claims above, a drinking problem. These problems were working on Terry.

One person claimed above that Mr. Bryce before the funeral gave one of "the most uncaring, unsupportive, cold messages" he had ever heard.
I guess one hears what he or she wants to hear since there are others who thought otherwise regarding his sermon.

Btw, it is a minister's duty to speak up and show people their sins, as is noted above in the comments. I know of no minister who is able to do this in a more balanced, caring, concerned, and well thought out manner than Mr. Bryce. His sermons, had they been not immediately pulled by LCG after they terminated him for standing courageously up for the traditions and doctrines set down by HWA, would amply demonstrate this. His sermon on modest dress and paying taxes was a perfect example of his balanced and caring sermons.

Mr. Tim Walters, who owns this site, are you essentially an arm of Mr. Meredith like Cogwriter's Bob Thiel is? It would certainly seem so based upon what you have written? Or have you had Mr. Bryce tell you things that you didn't want to hear that you have gone to such great lengths to assert such a powerful maligning of him?

Let's get back to the business of being Christians and getting the true gospel out to the world, not one based on the twisting of scriptures out of the context of all the other scriptures on the subject as is being done now by the trio at LCG.

It is absolutely absurd to claim that a sermon by Charles Bryce caused Terry to go and kill others in LCG.

What is absolutely absurd is your apparent inability to read and comprehend simple English. I did not suggest it "caused" the murderous rampage, and quite clearly just stated I had not "blamed" his crime on that sermon.

Do I think it was the trigger? Yes: it was clearly what "set him off" -- just as an aggrieved postal worker might go nuts over being justifiably corrected for a mistake. But I cited the same things you just mentioned -- his drinking habit and possibly trouble "admitting the evil within [himself]" as the core issues.

Which part of that are you so determined not to get?

One person claimed above that Mr. Bryce before the funeral gave one of "the most uncaring, unsupportive, cold messages" he had ever heard.

I'm not sure if you've noticed it yet, but people of all opinions and outlooks are allowed to come here and post their views and experiences. Just as you have. I'm sorry if someone else's views and claimed experiences offend you, but that just a part of life (and a free society) that we all have to learn to cope with.

I am not "dale". Mmmmkay?

Btw, it is a minister's duty to speak up and show people their sins, as is noted above in the comments. I know of no minister who is able to do this in a more balanced, caring, concerned, and well thought out manner than Mr. Bryce.

I have no idea what "Mr. Bryce" said specifically in his sermon, but once again, for the reading-comprehension impaired, please note (this is the last time I will repeat this) that I assumed, in the article above, rightly or wrongly, that it was a fairly godly sermon.

Do I have hire a skywriter to write this over your house before you notice this? Sorry to be a bit snippy, but I do not suffer fools lightly. Which, frankly, you're being.

Here I am, having written almost the same opinion you offer, and you're apparently so determined to make an enemy that you can't be bothered to even read what's been said.

Mr. Tim Walters, who owns this site, are you essentially an arm of Mr. Meredith like Cogwriter's Bob Thiel is?

First off, I am not, and do not know, a person by that name.

Second, please read the comment I just wrote to you, above, for the answer to your question about your church, and my lack of relation thereto, and involvement therein.

Also read the comment rules, regarding why you're now in violation of them. Hint: it has to do with the fact I don't like repeating myself to people who can't be bothered to read.

Let's get back to the business of being Christians and getting the true gospel out to the world...

Before you get the "true" gospel out to the world, you're going to have to learn some basic etiquette. Such as not wandering onto some stranger's blog and falsely accusing him of absurd conspiracy theories. And making other false statements.

After a couple of years I just read..."Please don't condemn that which you have no real knowledge of." Sorry to burst this person's bubble... but I do have "real knowledge of" the LCG culture. Over 35 years of my life was spent under the direction of C. Bryce, Rod Meredith and others just like them. I applaud the strength it took for those willing to speak up in the congregation and tell truthfully what the events were that led to Ratzmann's rampage. The woman that teased him when he was at his weakest moment reminds me of someone that attended our local congregation. If the teaser was similar in nature to our own busy-body, the damage that tease could have caused would be huge. I have seen the hurt in peoples' eyes when our busy-body did her church-lady duty and put people in their place. Yes, the blame certainly rests on Ratzmann. But, based on what I have seen in our local congregation I can make the assumption that he was a likely product of the pressure exerted on him from the ministry and certain members of the congregation. I am writing this in the hope that it will somehow encourage others to look outside their little group. They only have the authority over you if you allow them to do so. It is not the end of the world if you go elsewhere. You have not committed the "unpardonable sin" or "hardened your heart" should you choose to attend another church, meet a potential mate outside of your group, or seek professional help when you know there is a need. You are merely exercising your right to be a free moral agent.

Anonymous: Thank you for speaking up.

I must say that I grew up with Armstrong, Meredith, Tkach, Bryce, McNair and so many others which worshipped Armstrong, while they were all still in WCG. Going to church every Saturday was pure hell...when Bryce became my minister, I really began to hate church. Sermons were geared toward how god hated us because we were human and there was nothing we could do about it but suffer so he might love us at the second coming. Dating was out of the question for anyone outside of the church, so singles basically had to date within their own small congregation. I never made it that far and pity anyone who had to suffer that mess. I knew a few of these single guys and even now I cringe. No self respect and they expected that women would just date them because there was no one else. I picture this Terry as one of these guys.

When I heard of this shooting, before I knew any details, I stated to my husband, "It would not surprise me if this was one of the WCG off-shoots." Of course there was no surprise when I found out that Bryce had climbed his way to the top of this organization, to spread his poison to a wider audience. Now I learn that he has formed his own church which takes away any advances that church had made in the last 30 years. Enduring Church of God...Bryce was fired from LCG because he felt that they were not being strict enough.

I do not believe that it was just the one sermon which set Terry Ratzman off, I am sure it was building and he was just too dependent to just leave for good. This history by no means justifies his actions, murder is murder. If there is a God, I think he would be shaking his hand. Religious people always say God works in mysterious ways; Terry could have just been a tool in this god's ultimate plan.