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A while ago, I write a brief piece in which I noted that noted sceptic Michael Shermer's "deconversion" seems to have been more due to social factors than any new evidence for or against the proposition God exists. Today, I'd like to direct your attention to the life of Ted Turner, noted a while ago (I'm slow, what can I say?) by Rob Dreher at The National Review:
What I find interesting is they way such people -- though they actually reject God for what appear to be emotional reasons -- often couch their scepticism in intellectual terms, as though one day they discovered some logical proof or argument which made the almighty disappear. And perhaps that's true, if you admit the "problem of evil" as an argument. In fact, Dreher's article explicitly makes that point. Dust in the Light (hat tip) offers a better analysis than mine:
Jesus -- who some morons like George Bush and I actually regard as a philosopher -- offered several barriers to continuing faith. People will reject an existing faith because of (Matt 13:21): 1. An interest in fads and what's fashionable; shallowness. Others may see a once-vital faith turn into a dead, unproductive belief system because of: 4. Worries and a focus on physical things, rather than serving God.
That's also a point Dreher makes. But in Katz, and a few others I know who really seem open-minded pose a much more serious counter-argument to faith. They don't have a chip on their shoulder. They'd apparently honestly like to believe. But they say, with no particular reason to doubt them, that they don't see compelling evidence. (And they often end up as political conservatives.) Speaking as a Christian, I don't have anything neat or glib to say to that. Perhaps God will eventually show them -- perhaps even as they lay dying, who knows -- the missing evidence. Perhaps it's like Abraham, who never mentioned Christ explicitly, but who would surely have been glad to receive him, once he saw with his own eyes. Or perhaps there is, like there was with me, still some subtle mistake going on in the brain, below the level of conscious thought, which is somehow tied up in ego and hides evidence from us. Perhaps a desire for the positive things faith brings -- the effects of faith -- isn't the same as a desire to know God. And, from the agnostic point of view, one might also suggest perhaps they're right: perhaps God doesn't exist, or there isn't reasonable evidence for that proposition, and they're seeing things more clearly than I. (I can't share the agnostic point of view with intellectual honesty: of course we're always falible, and any conviction we hold could turn out to be mistaken. But I've seen and experienced things which would make me have to abandon a lot of other convictions -- such as that Shakespeare existed -- before I got around to jettisoning Jesus.) Perhaps I'll write to him and ask. Of course some people will at times conclude a belief they held at one point is factually false. I know of such cases. But in my experience, I've come to suspect that this is somewhat of a minority. Over and over, I hear not that people discover some new fact, but that so-and-so who was a believer did something wrong (a friend of mine), or that they hung out with people who thought it wasn't "cool" to believe (Shermer), or that they are threatened by the very idea of God (Hitchens), etc. These are not, shall we say, highly rational, fact-based responses. In terms of logic, most the atheists I have encountered in the past have trouble getting out of the starting without contradicting themselves. Are you any different? If so, that would be refreshing! So, consider your own assertion: "None of it is real." Okay -- I'm game -- give me some evidence for this. Is it just an article of your faith? Or do you have any actual evidence underlying this belief of yours? If you have evidence that no theistic religion is "real", will you share it with us? Or did you just come here to unthinkingly scream one of your religious dogmas, in an emotional catharsis? Posted by: Tim (Random Observations) on November 9, 2008 08:18 AM I have not come here for any purpose, Mr. Tim. I stumbled across your webspace researching Ted Turner. From reading some of your other works here, I find that you are a Christian who attempts to portray himself as possibly "uncertain." If one decides to make a fruitful effort to research human history far beyond the christian calendar, one eventually sees the absolute link between most all current religions of the world, and the various Pagan mythologies. Living an entire life according to what they expect AFTER this life is absurd. A human being most certainly does not require any form of religion to understand and utilize general morals. Ive found that every freethinking person I have personally encountered, be they Atheist or Agnostic, are far more compassionate and understanding of their fellow man than those who claim allegiance to a god. Religion, on the other hand, has been and is currently responsible for millions of deaths of innocents over thousands of years. The answer to "Is there a god?" is a simple one. Though one must use the extraordinary powers of the brain to simply break free from the chains. Posted by: Jon on November 9, 2008 07:06 PM Add your two cents...
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"People will reject an existing faith because of (Matt 13:21):
1. An interest in fads and what's fashionable; shallowness.
2. Troubles and sorrows (like those described above).
3. Persecution or social dislike because of with the low status of the gospel."
#4. NONE OF IT IS REAL.
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"Others may see a once-vital faith turn into a dead, unproductive belief system because of:
4. Worries and a focus on physical things, rather than serving God.
5. Material comfort, which makes us feel good, but hides our spiritual poverty."
#6. The resentment of being robbed of a reality-based childhood by a tale less believable than the Easter Bunny.
Posted by: Jon on November 8, 2008 01:38 AM