Current Features

Request for Info: Greg Montoya and Ecoquest
"Sicko" Reviews Provide Evidence of Bias?
Science and Religion
Staunch Republican Supports Democrats (Updated)
The Mysterious Case of the Throbbing Oil
Five Dangers of Religion?
News Roundup: Blowing Up Mary
Progressive Taxation
The New Death Cult?
Ron Paul's Constitutional Idiocy
Learning from Michael and Cuba
What do Ron Paul and al Qaeda Have in Common?

Read the Front Page

Topics

Blogging
China
Computers and Technology
Crime and Punishment
Education
Entertainment
Europe
Faith and Philosophy
Faith and Politics
Features
France
Fun
General
Happy Stuff
Health
History
Human Rights
Humor
International
Iraq
Left Versus Right
Media Bias
Personal Notes
Politics
Product Reviews
Quick Alerts
Quixtar
Racism
Ron Paul
Science
Science Fiction
Sexuality
Sick & Wrong Department
Society
The Arab Street
The Arts
The Church of Gaia
Travel
Words, Words, Words
Your Money

Archives

July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003

Search


The Blogosphere

BitsBlog
Beyond the Rim
Common Sense and Wonder
Dissecting Leftism
Drive-Thru Musings
FunMurphys.com
Investor Blogger
Iowa Geek
La Shawn Barber
The Littlest Apologist
Mark D. Roberts
Muddling Towards Maturity
Quixtar Blog
Quixtar Sucks
Sinking in Quixand
Zappe Family Blog


Science and Religion

Atheists usually depict their beliefs as the unavoidable result of learning more about the world. For example, writing in the Los Angeles Times, Sam Harris insists:

Although it is possible to be a scientist and still believe in God — as some scientists seem to manage it — there is no question that an engagement with scientific thinking tends to erode, rather than support, religious faith.

Harris then cites high percentage of disbelief among government-paid scientists as proof that exposure to science causes atheism. Of course those numbers alone show no such thing -- that's an example of the post hoc ergo propter hoc fallacy. It might be that secularists like science jobs more, and are more likely to believe in working for the government. Without asking that question, you can't be sure of the relationship between the two factors.

A while ago, I'd noticed this article at ABC News, which noted "most scientists are nonbelievers, study finds." But I hadn't gotten far enough into it to notice the important information, which was buried further into the article, on page 2:

The question she most wanted to answer was pretty basic: Does the study of science drive a person away from religion? It does not, she said in an interview....

She is convinced that her research shows that whether a scientist believes in God is determined primarily during childhood, and most of the scientists she studied came from homes where religion was not considered important.

This article (brought to my attention by Michael, thank you very much) summarizes the findings even more succinctly.

If so, Harris is apparently wrong, and atheists arrive at their beliefs by means which are as ir-/a-/rational as those which produce theists. We might also guess, then, that what's happening is not that (as Dawkins insists) atheists are just "brighter" than the rest, and the "bright" people are drawn to science. Rather, science may attract secularists looking for an venue for the search for meaning which most other people fulfill in a religious context. (And this comports well with the science-worship I observe in so many secularists.)

And, if so, it's a fool's errand: science is wonderful at describing what will happen next when something occurs. But it's quite useless at revealing the values we need to decide whether we should desire or oppose some particular outcome.


There's something else in the study, something Ecklund, the researcher, apparently missed:

And although women generally tend to be more religious than men, that was not the case among the surveyed scientists. "Gender did not play a role," Ecklund said.

She's precisely wrong: Gender *did* play a role. If women on the whole are more religious than men, and we find some subset where this is *not* true, it shows that the irreligious women who are being disproportionately attracted to that particular niche, slightly moreso than irreligious men.

The study also allegedly finds something I've known for a long time: the further you get from hard science, the more atheistic you get. The article calls this "surprising" given the battle between Copernicus and the church (never mind that Copernicus was himself a believer) and suggests, in line with the "atheists are cutting edge" narrative, that it is a contemporary "ongoing clash" which draws the irreligious into evolutionary biology. But that doesn't explain why sociology, psychology, and other softer sciences are also strongly anti-religious.

I buy the theory I heard from a physicist: When the psychologist or sociologist can no longer answer the next "why?" question, they refer you to the biologist. Who eventually refers you to the chemist. Who eventually refers you to the physical chemist. Who refers you to the physicist. Who, after a bit more questioning, eventually shrugs his shoulders, admitting we really don't know -- and suggests, quizzically: "God?"

Comments

I agree with you Ryan: you probably won't get nearly as many time-honored 'breakthroughs' by 'softer' scientists working in 'harder' fields than vise-versa. For example, it's more like that a physicist might make a valid point about, for example, literary criticism (e.g. the Sokal hoax) than a English major would be to point out something meaningful in physics.

If I may give another example: one of the things I enjoy so much about the work of Rodney Stark are his repeated attempts to apply at least semi-rigorous mathematical analyses to fields (history, religion) where such aren't usually applied.

In Cities of God, in which he traces the rise of Christianity in the mideast (and overturns not a few long-cherished beliefs) Stark has a wonderfully-entitled double-entendre closing chapter, "Why Historians Ought to Count", where he takes historians to task for their ignorance of (and sometimes even pride in) avoiding quantitative analyses.

Sometimes, I wonder if the reason for the disparity is that hard science can have the effect of limiting one's scope of possible beliefs. For example, a mathematician who moved into economics could never have (I hope) sustained Marxist narratives.

Again citing Stark: He points out that in his own discipline, Sociology, his own specialty, Sociology of Religion, is by far the most anti-/non-religious. Lots more atheists there than in the other branches of sociology. And elsewhere he observes that rational choice theory, which has revolutionized other aspects of sociology, is still largely rejected by his peers!

Why?

Looking at, for example, the question of Christian martyrdom, he notes (and cites copious examples) where his peers have been eager to ascribe all manner of ill motive or reason to martyrs -- mental illness, sexual perversity, etc. -- rather than the most obvious one: people were willing to be martyrs because they believed ("rationally", in their religious context) that the afterlife existed and would compensate for or reward such adversity.

As a result, his peers have been sidetracked into endless psychological speculation...

But the point here is that it appears many were unwilling to embrace a bit of 'harder' science which benefited other areas of sociology simply because it would limit their options, and lead to unwanted or unpleasant conclusions -- in this case, that people could embrace religion, and martyrdom even, and not necessarily be psychologically ill or immoral.

And, in parallel, I notice that the Miller-Urey experiments were supposed to have proven that there was nothing improbable about life arising on earth, and thus no need for a God: indeed, that was Sagan's point in using it in Cosmos.

Yet cite some chemist who points how improbable even the simplest self-replicating molecule is (a 'harder' argument imported into a 'softer' field like evolutionary biology), and, I've noticed, suddenly probability tells us nothing about the need for a creator. (And chemists aren't qualified to be making remarks in this particular debate!)

I'm not here to make either argument (either would be fine if not for the other): my point is that I agree with your implication: I also see a lot more "convenience" or "cherry picking" in the softer fields, whereas people in the harder fields are used to just letting the chips fall where they may, and apply the same rules whether they like the results or not.

Which leads me to wonder, as I said above, if perhaps people who like convenience or cherry picking may sometimes be drawn to the places where it may be done more easily: a half-baked political theorist might make more headway in anthropology or sociology than as a statistician or neuroscientist, perhaps?

A few more examples come to mind: "Anthropologist" Margaret Mead certainly had an axe to grind -- and her "findings" revolutionized the outlook of my mother's generation. (She herself remarked on learning about them in school.) And yet I'm not surprised that further research has disproven most of the big things she was alleged to have 'discovered' about sex, children, and society, and seems to point to fraud in her work.

And, again, look at the example of Kinsey, who clearly had not a few sexual skeletons in his own closet. Same end result: we find in retrospect he used very un-rigorous means to arrive at his (apparently) desired conclusions.

If you want to be a missionary of some sort, you'll be much more at home in anthropology, political science, or psychology than chemistry, math, or physics.

Posted by: Tim (Random Observations) on July 26, 2007 06:01 AM

Add your two cents...

The comment rules will apply. Please post only once.

















« Staunch Republican Supports Democrats (Updated) | Front Page | Page Two | "Sicko" Reviews Provide Evidence of Bias? »