Two things:

Which one? If it's Coupon Connection of America, they've already been kicked out of West Virginia and Iowa

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/coupon_scam.html

Second:

Where did this person get introduced? (This is for personal research on MLM suckerhood and how it works.)

I was aware of Coupon Connection (and more). I'm hoping to hear from those who have direct experience right now with his current venture.

Where did this person get introduced?

She answered an ad promising a "Christian" small business you could do from home.

I am very familiar with Greg and the EcoQuest business. This is a real business for people looking to be in business for themselves with tons of support. Great products and company. You do need to work to make the profits.

It is legit.

John Leber

John,

Thanks for the feedback. Care to elaborate?

I haven't met Greg in person yet, but have conversed with him via email several times. He seems to be a hard-working, selfless, team-player who has created an ingenious turn-key marketing plan that actually works. The company and marketing plan I can certainly vouch for.

I had been burned by 7 other work-from-home systems, previously. I was so tired of empty promises. I had felt like time and again I had been proverbially blindfolded with my hands tied behind my back, gotten tossed in the water, with my so-called mentors saying "Okay, swim... let us know how it goes." Training had been nearly non-existent with these other companies and their support was a joke. Boy, was I skeptical and very gun-shy, to say the least.

Why did I keep looking? Let's cut through the hype out there and realize that working for someone else will NOT make you successful. It only builds someone else's dreams. When they have made it, they throw you to the wind!

Now, according to mega-millionaires like Robert Kiyosaki, purchasing a virtual franchise (turnkey business) to increase your income is a smart approach to success. Robert states that key elements need to be in place: It needs to have a proven track record, and start-up fees that won't "break the bank". It needs to promote products that people not only need... but actually WANT! It needs to have a refined marketing system in place that people can easily interact with. The entire process needs to remain simple and duplicatable.

That is EXACTLY what Greg helped to create seven years ago for the marketing side of the 22yr old EcoQuest company's product line.

No more of the destructive methods of marketing like hounding friends and neighbors, cold-calling, and going door-to-door to build your business. I never could stomach that bitter pill of alienation and rejection again.

With the Creating Wealth From Home system, you actually have people contacting YOU wanting to know more about purchasing a franchise. You simply follow up with them and provide them the information that they are looking for via the telephone, email, and websites. This makes sense! No need to pressure! No need for begging! Real Professionalism! Real Support! Real Teamwork!

I've been a franchisee with EcoQuest for a year now. I love helping people everyday. I control my time. I don't have to fight rush-hour anymore. I get to watch my children grow up. If I want to take time off...I take it. I'm not saying that running a business from home like this is a walk in the park. It requires hard work, self-discipline, determination, persistence, and a genuine desire to put others FIRST. Zig Ziglar was right when he said, "If you help enough people get what they want... you will eventually get what you want."

Does the EcoQuest business actually work? I can with complete honesty say, YES!! Perhaps, the real question should be: Will YOU work it??

My suggestions for you:

Regardless of what business you get involved with, if you don't take it seriously and professionally, you will be part of the 90% out there that whine and complain that things didn't work out for them because they didn't take it seriously and follow the system as it was designed to be used. I've never understood a person's desire to "reinvent the wheel" when utilizing a system already proven to work; especially when they don't even understand it in the first place.

Do NOT base your future on what you've accomplished in the past. Your past should not dictate to you what you can do now. Don't fall into that lie. When someone offers unsolicited business advice to you, consider whether they actually have EXPERIENCE with the advice they offer. Get GOOD advice by asking it from those who you know to have already achieved the goals that you wish to reach someday. If you want to be successful, you need to do what successful people are already doing!

And as for bad advice, consider this wise riddle:

Q: What can 9 broke people teach you?
A: How to become the 10th.

Eric,

Thanks for the detailed response. I see both your e-mail address and website are given as being part of Greg Montoya's domain. Looking at that, and the content of your comment, it sounds like your posting is more of an advertisement (from which you might expect to make money) than a dispassionate analysis from an outsider.

He seems to be a hard-working, selfless, team-player...

What makes you think he's selfless? Does he have a habit of giving away large chunks of money? Or are you simply saying that he works effectively to enlarge his income? That isn't necessarily wrong, but also doesn't prove specific anything about a person's character.

I had been burned by 7 other work-from-home systems, previously. I was so tired of empty promises...

I don't mean to be uninterested, this sounds like a standard TV commercial: "Are you tired of all those other cleansers which don't work?"

I can't help but wonder if you weren't, at some point, saying the exact same thing about each of those other 7 "work-from-home" systems as well.

Now, according to mega-millionaires like Robert Kiyosaki, purchasing a virtual franchise...

Wait a second: let's be clear: Kiyosaki got rich by selling books on how to get rich (while he was still poor!). He's a classic example of someone who tells you one thing about how to get rich (do this! invest in that! buy real estate! sell stuff on ebay!) but got rich, himself, a completely different way.

If you want to know how to become a wealthy star by selling a book based a made-up story, listen to Kiyosaki: he's done very well. But if you want to ask how to start another kind of business, I'd point out, respectfully, that he simply has no expertise in those areas.

No more of the destructive methods of marketing like hounding friends and neighbors, cold-calling, and going door-to-door to build your business...

Well, those methods aren't destructive, but they certainly aren't fun. But if you're going to talk about "destructive" means of selling things, you should be alert for an entirely different kind of characteristic...

With the Creating Wealth From Home system, you actually have people contacting YOU wanting to know more about purchasing a franchise.

I hear that you have to pay a rather large sum for each lead brought in. Is that true? What is it, $15 or so? And isn't it true that much of the profit from the sale of those leads goes into Greg's pockets?

Also, is this the kind of business where the participants pay a marked-up amount to place advertisements? And if so, isn't the profit from that going to Greg as well?

And then there's the cost of using the website, right? And are there other products and services you're buying? And do you buy the EcoQuest products to resell at a higher price than you could have bought it otherwise, say, online or on ebay?

Does the EcoQuest business actually work? I can with complete honesty say, YES!!

Are you making more money by signing people up, or are you selling most your product to people who otherwise have nothing to do with EcoQuest?

If the former is true, then you're basically involved in a legal pyramid scheme, since you're making most your money from your "downlines", who are inside the same organization you are.

Certainly, some people can make money that way -- that can "work" for the earlier people. The people who used to start chain letters made money too. But it's not sustainable: many people always get toasted in the end.

Q: What can 9 broke people teach you?
A: How to become the 10th.

You know, that's funny: the Amway/Quixtar people say the same kinds of things, and share some of the same assumptions: "Don't listen to so-and-so because they're a broke loser!"

Did you know that facts are facts, no matter who says them?

If you're going to only "listen to the wealthy" as to how to make money, the key question to ask yourself is this: Do they practice what they preach?

Look at Carlton Sheets: He tells you to make money by doing no-money-down real estate buys. Is that how he makes his money? No, he makes his money from selling his courseware to people.

In this case, it looks like Greg is making his money one way (he runs a website which sells you leads, and perhaps other services), but is telling you to get rich a different way (by selling EcoQuest products).

If I'm wrong in this impression, feel free to correct me.

As someone that has known Greg & Jon and their system for many years and have had many friends use it. I have to say there are much better ways, and companies in the direct sales industry. Many of us that worked their system call it "The creating Debt from Home System." The challenge with any program is how simple and easy to duplicate it is. This system is not for everyone, as it is expensive and not in true alignment with the parent company policies. If your friend is open to other options, put him in touch with me, as I will be happy to educate him as to the challenges with this route and suggest other options that might be a better fit.This is not just my opinion but many of the Managers I know. My main complaint with this Company (Being a Sales Manager with them for over 7years) is that the compensation plan is breakaway, and the best years are not ahead but long ago...make sense? Great products and some good people but not a good Biz model to grow with. I hope this helps as people should know all the pro's and con's before jumping in with time & $.

I am currently in contact with a person who is trying to get me involved in ecoquest, and I would be very appreciative to get some feedback and have my questions answered by somebody who actually has worked with the company and ISN'T trying to sell me something. Any help would be seriously appreciated!

FutureEcoquestManager? : Nobody here is selling anything. Look around: No ads, not even any way to donate.

I only have a friend who became involved. She got out because she thought it was unethical, and was left with a bit of debt. Sound like some of the commenters above might have a bit more experience.

All I can say is this:

(1) Read and think about what's written above.

(2) Beware of any "system" where the majority of the money comes from signing people up, or selling things to people inside the "system."

(3) Watch out for "systems" which want to sell you expensive ways of "building your business", such as charging per lead, encouraging you to pay more for a product than you can buy it elsewhere, charging you to place ads, or a focus on selling you training materials or other "business-building" services.

Just because something is legal doesn't mean it isn't a pyramid scheme. As long as there's some product changing hands, "upline payment" pyramid schemes are currently treated as being legal.

Best to you!

Researching:

We have not decided whether EcoQuest is a match for us, but I want to thank you for your honest, but gentle answer.

Well, best to you both, and thanks for your kind feedback! Good luck, and, as they used to say, don't take any wooden nickels!

Anonymous: You've said a number of things which I must, in good conscience, object to:

Ecoquest will work, Amway will work, Curves will work, Jiffy lube will work...

No: not all things claiming to be "franchises" are; and certainly all are not created equal. When I own a Jiffy Lube or Curves franchise, I try to sell people a product. I don't make most my money by trying to sign them up to become my (theoretical) competitors. Jiffy Lube just changes my oil, they don't beg me to set up a shop right next door.

Yet when you do an Amway-, Quixtar- or EcoQuest-related "business system", you are encouraged to try make more money from (and put more effort into) signing up downlines than actually moving product to people outside the organization.

That's a HUGE difference, and should be a warning: it's the difference between a normal business and a pyramid scheme (whether legal or not). And it will also often make the difference between whether you, as a prospective participant, will MAKE or LOSE money.

Will it work is not the concern...

It absolutely should be! People lose A LOT of money on these sorts of pyramids every year. And I would be (and you should also be) suspicious of anyone who would try to keep people from asking for evidence about this very important question.

I just wanted to thank everyone for the candid remarks and illuminating information on Greg Montoya and his system. Conventional wisedom says if it seems to good to be true, it probably is. This thread of converstaion has saved me from making a mistake. I have been researching the system and Eco-Quest for about a week and finally found this web site. Thank you all again.

I have been researching the system and Eco-Quest for about a week and finally found this web site.

I have a friend who lost several thousand dollars on this, and that was within a very short period of time -- it could have been much more. If more information can help just one person (such as yourself) avoid falling into a similar trap, it's more than worth it. Like you, I'm also deeply grateful to all those who shared their experiences and opinions here. And it's a real credit to you that you worked so diligently to find out what you were getting into before you jumped in head-first.

Best to you!

As a Ph.D. physicist who has applied a critical eye to the Ecoquest technology product line, and as one who is not actively pursuing the business plan at the moment, I have to disagree with those who say it is just a sign-people-up scheme. The air, water, and laundry technology is peer-reviewed, journal-published, certified and proven to a level you will be hard pressed to find elsewhere. The nutritionals are NSF certified when every other company in America has tried and failed to get certification at that level. Real businesses can and are being built on retailing these proven products. In all honesty, those who profit most from Ecoquest seem to have signed up significant numbers of business owners, but retail commissions are a successful alternative income stream. Since these are commissions on products I can personally vouch for and since the science behind them is so solid, I am seriously considering building a supplementary income with this company. Any real business will take an investment of time and finance, but Ecoquest has products I believe in and multiple income paths that can appeal to those petrified of another network marketing scheme.

At issue is MLM v Networking. MLM used to involve selling product AND recruiting. NWM is simply recruiting other product users.
If you want success in an MLM company....direct sales, you must sell and recruit.
Success in NWM, just recruit.
This company has products to sell. It allows you to promote yourself through a combination of personal sales and recruiting. Advantage? Quicker and bigger money. Disadvantage? You must be willing to prospect and sell and, most importantly....train others to do the same.
To do what Mr Montoya does you need a to have a lot of cash. It is not cheap to do the advertising and promotions he does.
So, think about what you want to achieve, in other words, put the goal out there and then decide which opportunity gives you the best chance based on your talents, abilities, drive, and finances. Do an actual business plan.
BTW, I am retired but have been a manufacturer, wholesale distributor, national sales manager, national marketing director, #1 MLM distributor, MLM compensation consultant, door to door Kirby salesman, store to store busines services salesman, and salesman of commercial, industrial, and residential water treatment systems.

Eric H.: In all honesty, those who profit most from Ecoquest seem to have signed up significant numbers of business owners... Any real business will take an investment of time and finance...

A "real" business does not make more money from "signing up" downlines than it does from moving actual product. Even a PhD in physics needs to understand that simple economic litmus test which distinguishes retailers from pyramid schemes.

It doesn't matter how "quality" the products are, if more money is being made from signing people up, not selling products to people OUTSIDE the organization. There was nothing terribly wrong with Amway/Quixtar's cereal and soap -- it was the "business model" which was the problem.

I don't care if you're selling pure certified gold: if the "system" makes more from signing people up than from selling to people OUTSIDE the "system", the average participant will LOSE, not MAKE money.

Bruce Porter: At issue is MLM v Networking. MLM used to involve selling product AND recruiting.

No: The issue is both these activities versus building an actual business.

In a real business, you make money by selling to people OUTSIDE the organization or "system." McDonald's doesn't make money by selling most its food to "franchisees" or "employees". Nor does WalMart, nor CostCo, nor does the little hardware store or hair salon up the street.

People, please learn to spot this very important distinction. It's the difference between a pyramid scheme and a business.

To do what Mr Montoya does you need a to have a lot of cash...

The irony here is that he is NOT asking people to do what he does. (What HE does is profitable.) He makes money by signing up people to use his "system"; the money comes in from their fees. Whether those using the "system" make money is another question altogether.

I'm reminded of the guys on TV who make money selling "No Money Down Real Estate". They're rich! But they made it selling a real estate SYSTEM, not selling real estate itself. The message here is: "Do what I say, not what I'm doing."

It is not cheap to do the advertising and promotions he does.

The argument that you need a lot of cash to do what he does is laughable: Every testimony about how he got rich says he started with nothing. I believe that: the advertising is paid for as a fraction of the fees he charges for his "system", he does it because it will make him money, not out of the goodness of his heart.

Now, I want to be clear: There's NOTHING wrong with advertising, and making money from it. The question is what you're doing with the REST of your business: is it creating economic value, or are most participants losing money?

That's the salient question, and I sincerely hope people consider it.

I have been reading these postings and to tell you the truth im very upset to think of how (sorry dont want to be mean but) How can so many people be so dumb. Almost every business in the world is a pyramid. The only difference is with a normal JOB you can only make as much as the hours you can work to make your boss rich. With a network marketing business you can make alot more. Plus if you just want to be a dealer you can just sell the units and yes of coarse you buy them for less the same as any other business works or how would you make profit. And as with any franchise of course some of the money filters up to the top.

Shane,

Likewise, I don't want to be mean back, but I'm amazed at how you can be so strongly opinionated, and have a low opinion of other's intelligence, but seemingly not understand thing #1 about businesses. (Including apparently not even having read what I've already written.)

Almost every business in the world is a pyramid.

Yes, but not every business is a "pyramid scheme". You should learn the distinction: it's important. In a normal business, money comes in from an external customer, and flows down from the top: every member of the organization makes a profit.

In a "pyramid scheme", money comes in directly from the organization's members, themselves, and flows up towards the top. The people at the top (or running the organization) make a profit, but the average participant won't.

To repeat the example I've stated already (and you apparently didn't read) McDonald's makes money of customers, not "franchisees". They don't ask their employees to pay money into the organization, instead the employees get paid. When you go in for a burger, they don't try to sign you up to compete with their store. That would be pretty odd behavior for a business, but typical of pyramid schemes, which make money off the "employees".

The only difference is with a normal JOB you can only make as much as the hours you can work to make your boss rich

No, the main difference is as described above. Many jobs have flexible hours. It's funny that you worry about making "your boss" rich. What should matter to yourself is making yourself rich.

In a regular job, every employee makes a profit, or they wouldn't work for the company. In a pyramid scheme, the average participant will lose, not gain. Again, don't base your decisions on envy that someone else might profit (real business is win/win), but on your own likelihood of profit.

Plus if you just want to be a dealer you can just sell the units...

If people were just selling the units, I wouldn't be writing this. But go look on EBay, and see how cheaply LaundryPure and other such products are selling. Why would someone buy from you at $700 when they can get it under $400 on Ebay?

Think, people, think.

And as with any franchise of course some of the money filters up to the top.

Again, this is not true. With a McDonald's you make money selling to customers, not billing your 'employees' a ridiculous amount to participate. Yes, there is a franchise fee, but that's not how McDonald's makes most it's money. Reputable franchises carefully guard their territory: they never want two franchisees working the same location.

None of that is true for a pyramid scheme.

Please, this is not all that hard. Before giving advice to everyone else, please do yourself a favor and try to understand the basic characteristics of a pyramid scheme. The distinction exists for a reason.

This post was very helpful. It cast a whole new light on the subject and kept me from making a very big mistake. Thank you.

"If your friend is open to other options, put him in touch with me, as I will be happy to educate him as to the challenges with this route and suggest other options that might be a better fit.This is not just my opinion but many of the Managers I know. "

Please post your contact info for those of us who would like to explore better options, as you suggest. Thanks

To: Ex-Ecoquest Manager

sorry, forgot to include your name in previous post. Again, thanks for your input and candor.